Run-Down Forums

Micah Ward · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2002 5:05 pm Post subject:

For the men I would go with El G.

If we limit the women to the track then Guevera, but if we go for overall runner then Radcliffe.
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Conway · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 11:43 am Post subject:

Well ... The season is over and nothing to do but discuss how it went ... The highs and lows ... Best performers and performances ... Ya know ... All the good stuff ...

So let's start with performances ... As down as the season seemed to some of us, there were some very good performances:

9.78 WR, Tim Montgomery
3:26.89, Hicham El G
47.35, Felix Sanchez
8800, Roman Sebrle (twice)

49.16, Ana Guevara
3:57.79, Süreyya Ayhan
14:31.32, Paula Radcliff
2:18.56, Paula Radcliff
2.05, Kajsa Bergqvist

And others ... So what do ya'll think ??? Best performane Male & Female ???

Conway

Dan · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 12:13 pm Post subject:

I can't think off hand of any you missed, unless you want to go to subcategories like biggest surprise breakthrough (Krummenacker and Teter, for example).

I'm still undecided where Radcliffe fits overall in the AOY race, but she dominates the top 5 or 10 list of performances.

Tim seems the obvious choice to me for men's top performance.

Dan

Distance_Guru · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 2:13 pm Post subject:

I like Timmy because of his awesome performance. But for AOY I'd cast my vote for El G. He completly dominated the 1500 and although he didn't break the world record was unquestionably the best athlete on the track every time the 1500 or mile was run. As for women I go with Paula. Although I will the first to admit that I am very biased towards distance runners.
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Conway · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 2:14 pm Post subject:

Yeah I think Tim gets the nod on the men's side ... I actually think Boulami was better BUT !!!!

On the women's side i like Radcliff's marathon personally ... I'm sure others are probably more excited about her 5K (being within reach of the Chinese)...

As far as sub categories I'm willing ot discuss anything people want to talk about .. The dialogue is fun ..

Conway

Dan · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 3:21 pm Post subject:

Ooh, I forgot about Boulami... Suspension aside, that probably was the best male performance of the year. Since I still view Ben Johnson as having run the second fastest legal 100m ever, I feel obliged to acknowledge the significance of Boulami's tainted steeple...

Dan

Distance_Guru · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 3:23 pm Post subject:

I refuse to count cheaters Evil or Very Mad

:t-: :t-: :t-:
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Time is the fire in which we burn

Micah Ward · Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 8:10 am Post subject:

Paula had a 10K in about 30:38 (I don't have the exact time with me). So add that to the 5K and Marathon times and I go with her for AOY.
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Dan · Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 8:16 am Post subject:

Conway · Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 8:51 am Post subject:

OK ... REcap time since we're kinda off topic: Seems concensus for Athlete of the Year is ElG for men and Guevara for women ... As yet we have not settled on a #1 performance for either men or women ... And I am going to throw out th eidea of Breakthrough athlete of the year on both sides ... And I will start by nominating Dwain Chambers on the men's side (Krummenaker second and top American) ... And Süreyya Ayhan on the women's side (Nicole Teter # 2 and top American)

Conway

coachd · Water Boy Joined: 09 Sep 2002 Posts: 72 Location: Out west

For top performances: Based on the Hungarian Tables

Men

#1- Montgomery 100M ...WR, close to 1300pts. on the Hungarian Tables
#2- El G 1500M ...even though I hate the rabbited racing
#3- Kipketer 10k ...in the best (deepest)10k race ever (26:49)
#4- Khannouchi Mar ...WR, slightly inferior to the 10k on the tables
#5- Kipketer 800M ...Just tops Sanchez on the tables
#6- Sanchez 400H ...Does this show that the tables are screwed up
because of Moses and Young?

Women:

#1- Radcliffe Mar ....not even close
#2- Radcliffe 10k (30:01)...easily tops #3
#3- Ceplak 800 ...1:55.19
#4- Pechon 400H ...tops Guevara on the tables
#5- Guevara 400 ...but, 8 of top ten times this year!
#6- Radcliffe 5k ...3 of the top 6 performances

I don't neccessarily beleive the tables to be the "end all" of performance rating. I just throw this out for discussion.

Radcliffe is clearly the AOY for the women. For men I go with Montgomery--a WR in the glamour event of track, the world's fastest human and all that...EL G is dominant in his event, but missed his announced attempt at a WR and has proved himself many times to be a time-trialer more than a racer.

Dan · Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 10:17 am Post subject:

I would have to agree with all that was just said...

I think coachd raises some good points about relative performances, which is what I was hinting at when I said Sanchez and Guevara are equally deserving of AOY consideration, but neither really stands out in my mind because their achievements were more in the department of consistency and volume than truly top ranking performances. The fact that Kipketer's seemingly fairly average (for him) 800m -- an event we're mostly in agreement has stagnated for 20 years -- rates higher than Sanchez's best 400h seems quite revealing.

I think Ayhan's 1500m should rate very highly, but it's point equivalent is pretty low due to the '93 Chinese times...

Like I said, Radcliffe cleans up in the top performance category, but from a T&F perspective, it doesn't amount to much of a season, which is what AOY should be based on...

Dan

Conway · Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 10:52 am Post subject:

I like Coachd's use of the Hungarian tables ... Do you know when the last update was ??? I'd be curious to see a listing of values for current WRs ... would be nice to have when comparing perofrmances in general - especially during the season ...

A few comments based on Coaches list:

ElG and the rabbitting ... I totally agree .. Somehow just doesn't seem like YOUR performance when you've been assisted to it ... And he still has to prove to be a better racer ... But as longas he follows my theory of distance running - forget the tactical stuff just run up to your ability AND he gets that good old rabbitting help - he'll be hard to beat ...

I'm surprised to see Kipketer's 10K out point Khannouchi ...

WOW a ho hum (for him) 800 by Kipketer better than 47.35 IH !!!! I do think that Young's time in the IH has skewed that table a bit ... For comparison does anyone know how the 200 times of Gatlin/Crawford/Kenteris play out on the table (skewed by MJs 19.32)

Pechon 400IH better than Guevara 400 !?!?!? 400 table skewed by Koch and Kratochvilova !!!!!

And I'm surprised that Radcliff's 5K does post higher !!!

The Chinese defnintely screwed up the 1500 table ... But I think even when discounting the Chinese one would probablly have ot get in the 3:55 range in order to score high as Kazankina did run 3:52, Ivan 3:53, and Dvirna 3:54 ....

But I do think that Athlete of the year AND performance of hte year are separate issues ... AOY is about how well you competed, POY about how well you performed ... And those are two diferent things ... Guevara and Sanchez (as did ElG and Radcliff, and Jones) all competed well !!! All were undefeated against their competition ... The question then becomes how well did they do it AND (at least in my eyes) how hard was it (what was the competition like) ...

My problem with ElG is not in his excellence, but the sub par nature of his competition (no one is close) ... Radclliff competed sparingly on the track ... So that is why I tend to rank their season's slightly less than the others ... But everyone has his own view !!! Wink

Conway

Justin · Varsity Joined: 08 Oct 2001 Posts: 312 Location: London

Guevara's dominance was as much to do with mediocre opposition - 49.16 isn't really very fast and no-one else was even near 50 regularly. I don't think that a good athlete regularly beating mediocre opposition in barely world class times can be AOY.

If Radcliffe, as we expect, decimates the Marathon record in a couple of weeks she will have compiled not just the greatest season by a female athlete this year but one of the best by any athlete at all in any year.

Her 10k in Munich is by far and away the best single performance of the year, indeed one of the best ever.

Montgomery's 9.78 was clearly performance of the year and he was, for me, clearly the world #1 at 100m - WR, won in Zurich, won the GP and GP final. El Guerrouj dominated a high quality crop of 1500m runners but I think Montgomery's WR just shades him the AOY title as well. Close though.

Justin

Conway · Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2002 2:02 pm Post subject:

I agree with you regarding Radcliff's season ... But to call Guevara's performances mediocre I question ... If you dump out what are "known" to be drug tainted performances/performers, she beomes a top 5 performer and her 49.16/49.2x performances become outstanding ... By comparison ElG is dominating against mediocre 1500 competition ... Aside from Lagat (Guevara had Fenton) most were in the 3:33 - 3:35 range - less than mediocre considering the sub 3:30 standard and 2:26 record - not to mention the 2:26-3:28 range that ElG was running in ... While not a big fan of Montgomery, his level of competition was much keener, as was that of Felix Sanchez ... Not to take away from ElG's dominance - he owns the event ... but he only has ot go out and run time trials - and he gets rabbits to help him do that ...

Conway

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