Run-Down Forums

[Dan]

I guess I have another 5 years until I feel pressured to resume competing...

Dan
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[Paul]

Yes, from my understanding, 35 is the start of the sub-masters group. But, feel free to feel the pressure this year.
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Paul

"Gaunt is Beautiful" Cassidy's T-shirt

[Dan]

I'm content just feeling the pressure to get back into training shape... I had a good week or two stretch going (first in 5+ months) then got sick and haven't quite resurfaced yet.

Dan
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[Angelo Z]

Just curious, why did you stop at a 4:35 1500m? Do you still train (more in the sense of long distances since younger runners train at 1500)?
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My favorite all time race: Hicham El Guerrouj - Prefontaine Classic Mile 2002 http://youtube.com/watch?v=4YykUTHzOL8
¥London 2012 XXX Olympiad¥

[Dan]

Injuries.

Dan
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[Angelo Z]

You can adapt to and prevent, afterall, you're the most cautious individual about injuries I know. Is there something I still don't undertstand, really.
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My favorite all time race: Hicham El Guerrouj - Prefontaine Classic Mile 2002 http://youtube.com/watch?v=4YykUTHzOL8
¥London 2012 XXX Olympiad¥

[Dan]

That's because you haven't yet accepted that what works for you does not work for everyone else. Your perspective is more twisted than you can imagine if you consider my training approach to be the most cautious ever...

Dan
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[Angelo Z]

Today's middle distance runners are not as good as they were in the past. The past had 4 high school kids including Ryun, and Liquori go under 4 minutes. There was also Steve Prefontaine and Eamonn Coghlan who ran a sub four at 44 years old, Sebastian Coe, and of course-all of those retired legends like Hicham from the late 80s and 90s. Only Webb has been an astounding runner today by running sub four as the 5th all time runner in high school. 4 guys did it 50 years ago. I mean did you also see the 1500m at Beijing? Forget about Lagat, he holds the second best 1500m time in the world and was also a bit old to compete among those 20 year olds.

Runners don't seem to train hard enough anymore. In the past they would go balls to the wall and get injured by doing high mileage and still had more success. Now today's mentality is to be cautious about injuries in every way, probablity because of what happened to runners in the past. I know there's also Haile and Bekele, but those runners already have an astounding history. Before I took down the mile record, the record from before stood there since the 80s.
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My favorite all time race: Hicham El Guerrouj - Prefontaine Classic Mile 2002 http://youtube.com/watch?v=4YykUTHzOL8
¥London 2012 XXX Olympiad¥

[Dan]

And what's that have to do with anything being discussed here?

Dan
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[AM_Runner]

Paul - I look forward to it....

Angelo - you are so wrong there its quite laughable, for someone who professes to know so much about the world of running its amazing - sure Webb has had a few good runs and may be great some day but he has a lot of growing up to do still...

You took down the mile record good job. in a race? or another time trial?

You have kids of supposed high school age going under 4 on a daily basis in Kenya. Forget Lagat eh? The guy was the 2007 world champ at 1500 and 5000 M was injrued at the Olympics and still got through a few rounds... (and in case you forget that was the last time Webb did anything as well)

Check out the top runners in the 1500 from last year
3:31.49 Daniel Kipchirchir Komen KEN 27/11/1984 1 Monaco 29/07/2008
3:31.57 Augustine Kiprono Choge KEN 21/01/1987 1 Berlin 01/06/2008
3:31.64 Asbel Kipruto Kiprop KEN 30/06/1989 1 Roma

All pretty young...

I would say in many ways we seem to be coming back around here in the states as well much much better performances over the last few years guys like German Fernandez... if you go over to Kenya you have Kiprop, Kemboi and Lanang all Juniors last year... dont forget Kaki o fthe Sudan as well... You had all three americans with good performances in the Marathon in Beijing - only to have Wanjiru to run out of his mind oh did I mention her was born in 86... 22 years old...

Oh perhaps you were talking about the US

here are the times from last year quite a few US records
Elijah Greer OR 1:47.68
800m run
Chanelle Price PA 2:01.61

German Fernandez CA 3:44.8e
1500m run
Jordan Hasay CA 4:14.50 USR!

Rob Finnerty MN 3:59.59c
1600m run
Christine Babcock CA 4:33.82

Rob Finnerty MN 4:01.09
Mile run
Stephanie Morgan OH 4:41.22

German Fernandez CA 7:59.83e USR!
3000m run
Laurynne Chetelat CA 9:15.11

German Fernandez CA 8:31.00c
3200m run
Jordan Hasay CA 9:52.13

German Fernandez CA 8:34.40 USR!
2-Mile run
Neely Spence PA 10:20.77

Chris Derrick IL 13:55.96
5000m run
Ashley Brasovan FL 16:18.91

Donn Cabral CT 30:47.55
10000m run
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The long run is what puts the tiger in the cat.

[Dan]

Well said.

Dan
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[Angelo Z]

No, forget Lagat from Beijing, he can't be compared to those other runners-just isolating the others like Kiprop. Oh well, talk the talk but I'll prove who can "run the run." Back to Dan's topic, I'll be watching that movie this weekend.
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My favorite all time race: Hicham El Guerrouj - Prefontaine Classic Mile 2002 http://youtube.com/watch?v=4YykUTHzOL8
¥London 2012 XXX Olympiad¥

[AM_Runner]

We will see what happens by the time Worlds roll around this year - once again good ol Bernard will be at least top 10

Sure Africa has a pile of good runners - being good has very little to do with whether you get injured or not.

Every elite runner pushes the boundaries and redline - look no further than this country to see that - Lagat, Flanagan, Kastor, Ritz, Goucher... the list goes on and on there are many reasons for runners to be good or injured for that reason. Doing stupid things to get injured does not make you good it just gets you injured. Breakthroughs come after periods of good consistant training look at all of the best runners.
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The long run is what puts the tiger in the cat.

[Angelo Z]

Still, I didn't know about regular African "kids" going under sub four daily. Africans train with more more mileage and intensity. The general mileage for a good runner in the U.S. is about 70 during base work and 100+ for the Africans. After base work, Africans work at 90% intensity most of the time.

And wasn't Steve Prefontaine so twisted that he showed everyone else? His bio says that he trained so hard that he got injured and failed at the Championship but then came back and ended up victorious. His friend from highschool from an interview I saw said that Pre always lived on the edge. People who are just insane ane careless about injuries are the ones who know exactly what they want. You can look at it that way too. The runners that are afraid of taking risks are oftenly the ones who aren't even noticed in the pack. There's always one or two runners in a race that are just different from everyone else. Like AM also said, Lagat was injured during the Olympics. Imagine how he must of been competing with those 20 year olds on an injury with all that pressure on him and he also had the most experience. It's the desire that leads to the success, not the artifical scientific mindset.
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My favorite all time race: Hicham El Guerrouj - Prefontaine Classic Mile 2002 http://youtube.com/watch?v=4YykUTHzOL8
¥London 2012 XXX Olympiad¥

[AM_Runner]

Wrong again...

Where do you get your statistics? Much of the young kenyans train at low intensity - and they also run on feel - if they are not feeling good they dont run - if it is raining they dont run... a whole host of other things they start off slowly as well.

How you can take one person from any country and make them an example of everyone is beyond me. in that I can say all Kenyans are suseptable to destroying their lives through over indulgence by using a guy like Rono as an example. Steve Prefontaine did take risks and push the envelope - as do many you forget that these people have trained over long periods of time to understand their bodies and know where and when to push.

I am not sure to which Pre story you are referring to but the injury and subsequent victory was not a running related injury - he cut his foot open around the pool and ran anyway proving desire and win but it also can prove that he knew his body well enough to push to a point without destroyinghimself in the process... Lagat did the same managing knowing what he can and can not do - this is a guy that has been running at a high level for more than 12 years...
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The long run is what puts the tiger in the cat.