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GoldGoldGold
Water Boy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 18
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 Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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I kind of like it like it is. Having said that I would have loved to have traded some of my 'out for the season' picks like Usain Bolt..
I wouldn't be interested in the pay/prizemoney league.
Thanks for all your hard work again this season, Dan.
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting, I wouldn't have expected an overwhelming vote in favor of the status quo. Cool, looks like I have less work to do. 
Dan
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Paul
Olympic Medalist
Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 1610
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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I'll play what ever is available. Next year, I will be doing my homework!
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Paul
"Gaunt is Beautiful" Cassidy's T-shirt |
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Many of us regulars started at the ground floor, so to speak...
Dan
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AJMullican
Lurker
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:20 am Post subject: |
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I vote for having reserves, and a lineup each meet. But then again, I work in front of a computer all day so that would favor people like me. I do think that runs the risk of alienating people who forget to change their lineup, though. Once they start doing poorly, they may just give up and go away.
I like the new point system. I had my worst finish yet of "only" 14th place, so it must be a more fair system... (Less luck involved). I found the athlete selection process more interesting this time. It was fun to look for hidden gems.
Thank again Dan, for a great game! |
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I do think that runs the risk of alienating people who forget to change their lineup, though. Once they start doing poorly, they may just give up and go away. |
On the other hand, those are probably the same people that submit their roster and are never really heard from again, so it may not be much of a difference. My goal is to have active participation from people partaking in the contest, not just a couple hundred people silently checking on their score each week.
14th place as your worst finish, impressive.  Maybe I'll fancy up the program this off-season and put together summary stats for things like best average finish over 'x' seasons...
Dan
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AM_Runner
All-Star
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 776
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:45 am Post subject: Cool I like the idea of adding some input here |
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And I will see what thought sI can get down as well but just a quick note that no matter what I will be in next year.
As far as the reserves go the issue with that as far as changing around each week you would need to have a deadline for the change of the day before and well weren't there a couple of meets that were very close together early in the year... Perhaps a Certain # to spend on say and Injured reserve that could be subsitituted if there was an injury possibly even automatically added if such should occur.
I like the every event idea... but admittedly thatchanges some of the flavor of the event with some sprint specialists and some distance oriented folks which is pretty cool...
I would probably pay to enter as well.
If possible maybe a single or at most twice (but probably one at mid season) per season drop/add type thing but if this were to be done I think you would have to include a penalty otherwise you will just get most people dropping and adding for the same people bargains would be found out at that point... So I think you would have to be penalized but allowed to do some exchanges... otherwise you would need to do a re-calculation of value which woul dbe insane for you...
If I can think of more later I will add as well
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Cool I like the idea of adding some input here |
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Good suggestions, thanks. For everyone else, AM_Runner's feedback is what I was hoping for -- not necessarily yes or no to the original question as stated, but brainstorming based on it as a starting point.
| Quote: | | weren't there a couple of meets that were very close together early in the year... |
Good point. Regular deadlines could also be rough for some of the international folk in signficantly different time zones.
| Quote: | | I like the every event idea... but admittedly thatchanges some of the flavor of the event with some sprint specialists and some distance oriented folks which is pretty cool... |
Agreed. I only suggested that because the reserve pool might make the number of athletes such that people would load up on a few events and be guaranteed several scorers, whereas requiring the picks to be spread out keeps skill involved.
| Quote: | | If possible maybe a single or at most twice (but probably one at mid season) per season drop/add type thing |
I like that idea. Sticking with the usual 10 meets per season, a change period after meet 5 would make sense. It could be a one-time thing where you're allowed, say, 2-3 substitutions.
Of course, I still need to think through how to track scoring of athletes moving in and out of a roster, in case meets have to be re-scored...
| Quote: | | but if this were to be done I think you would have to include a penalty otherwise you will just get most people dropping and adding for the same people bargains would be found out at that point... |
Or just stick with the reserve pool idea and only allow substitutions from that group. That would require the player to have at least had an inkling about the hidden gem in advance... Perhaps there would be a reserve pool of 5 athletes and 2 changes made at mid-season. Keep everything else the same as it was this year. That would strike an interesting balance... Probably would have to add a stipulation that the total swap (or each individual one) must be a drop in athlete price.
| Quote: | | So I think you would have to be penalized but allowed to do some exchanges... otherwise you would need to do a re-calculation of value which woul dbe insane for you... |
Ugh...
Dan
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AM_Runner
All-Star
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 776
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Quote:
If possible maybe a single or at most twice (but probably one at mid season) per season drop/add type thing
I like that idea. Sticking with the usual 10 meets per season, a change period after meet 5 would make sense. It could be a one-time thing where you're allowed, say, 2-3 substitutions.
Of course, I still need to think through how to track scoring of athletes moving in and out of a roster, in case meets have to be re-scored...
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Hmm yes I se your point in the case of rescoring that does make it hard...
As far as the roster bit if you were thinking about that you could do something lik eI have seen in Baseball type leagues where you would basically have to be a coach and fill out who you want to run where from your list of althletes... with some wild card type things as such say from a list
Men
100M - Kim Collins
200M - JJ Johnson
800M - Bungei
1500M - Lagat
5000M - Kipchoge
10000M - Geneti
100/200M*can score in both - Asafa Powell
5K/10K*can score in either (or both in terms of OG or WC) Say Mark Bett (since I only had two but could have afforded him without sacrificing the others with some poor choices I made)
Wild Card*can score in whatever entered - Mehdi Baala
Or something like that for each Men and Women... although that will make it more complex for those choosing and maybe more diffiult to do for you... Just tossing ideas around you know... |
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps, but that seems pretty complicated from a program standpoint, and I'm not sure if it would apply to enough combo athletes to be worthwhile (most are already ranked and selectable in the other even they would be competing in).
Dan
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AM_Runner
All-Star
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 776
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:32 am Post subject: Yeah I guess it would be tough |
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| It was just something I thought of based on the otehr Fantasy Baseball league I am competing in ... |
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Top Tenner
Lurker
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:32 pm Post subject: 2006 - not so far away |
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Dan, please can we have a fuller range of events in 2006? In 2005, it's not fantasy T&F, it's fantasy T (and not a wide range of those events either, mostly the same events held each year for the last five).
I'm not sure I fully understand the point about 'there are no valid scoring tables' for most events. The IAAF has scoring tables for all athletics events available on its' website and (like it or not) these are the tables devised by athletics statistic experts and used to determine world rankings etc. The rest of the sport uses these, so why not Fantasy T&F?
Dan's altered some official scoring tables that we're using at the moment; why can't the IAAF ones be altered a little - if this really is necessary.
Dan, is there anything other people can do (in the year between now and the 2006 season) that will assist you in making it an easier process for you. People are willing to help, if you're willing to let them help.
My only goal is to have a competition which has a variety of athletics events rather than just 100ms, 800m and middle distance events year-in, year-out. I'll still play any fantasy league there is (and hopefully do as well or better than I have in the past), but it'd be nice to see a comp reflecting a fuller range of events. I'm just trying to discuss these issues well in advance of 2006, so we're not just told 'it's too late now'.
Dan, please don't think I'm just having a whine. Just interested in discussing the possibilities of a more diverse competition and happy volunteering to assist - if I can, rather than just causing you a heap of work.
Another suggestion - how about next year (say in May), an email is sent to all ex-leaguers notifying them that discussion about the next season is coming up in "thread.php" and their contributions (until xx Jun 06 - say) are welcome.
GT
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm not sure I fully understand the point about 'there are no valid scoring tables' for most events. |
That's because you missed an important detail.  There are no valid scoring models, not tables. The IAAF posts their tables, yes, but not the underlying calculations to score them in automated fashion. The only scoring models I've got for field events are some decathlon approximations, and only about half of those yield acceptably comparable results across events (see the huge thread from the first season).
To make a long story short, every GL field event that I've got a good scoring model for has been contested each season.
| Quote: | | Dan, is there anything other people can do (in the year between now and the 2006 season) that will assist you in making it an easier process for you. |
Certainly! Come up with good scoring models for alternative events and demonstrate that comparable performances from one event to another yield comparable scores. Easier said than done, however.  Every publicly available scoring model I'm aware of is being put to use.
| Quote: | | Another suggestion - how about next year (say in May), an email is sent to all ex-leaguers notifying them that discussion about the next season is coming up in "thread.php" and their contributions (until xx Jun 06 - say) are welcome. |
That's doable ... if I get off my butt earlier next year. I would add, though, that those contributions are welcome and invited year-round, not just in the brief period leading up to each season. This forum is here all the time...
Dan
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Conway
Olympic Medalist
Joined: 25 Aug 2001
Posts: 3570
Location: Northen California
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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And while the IAAF does have its "tables" folk need to understand that these are RANKINGS tables ... Not scoring tables .... And the math used for these "Rankings" incorporates a "Trailing 12 months system" ... Even if we were to iincorporate some sort of "ranking" tables into the system, they (it) would have to encapusulate the season ended, as a means of determining selection ....
Did that make sense to folk ???
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Conway
Speed Thrills |
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Indeed. The IAAF rankings take into account all the meets, not just those used for the Fantasy League. What's needed is the scoring model that leads to those tables, but I'm not aware of any way to get to that. I believe they're based on the Hungarian tables, but again, I've never seen anywhere to get at those calculations.
Dan
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