Run-Down Forums

[Paul]

What do you mean by negative foot speed?? I see TM's stride as near perfect, lower leg striking the ground perpendicular with solid pawing action. No overstriding at the end, so no braking action and no tying up.

[Dan]

That's exactly what I mean by negative food speed. The term refers to that slight clawing action that gets the foot moving as close to backwards as possible at the moment of impact. I don't believe anyone has actually managed to achieve negative foot speed while sprinting, but the less positive, or forward, the movement the better.

There is also a great contrast in that area between Montgomery and Chambers. From what I've seen of Dwain the past few races, he looks to be pretty poor in terms of point of impact. I suspect he's producing insane amounts of ground force to partially make up for it.

Dan

[Conway]

Let's see ... Where to start ... Tim v Dwain (and Mo) physically ... Tim is a different type of sprinter than what has become the norm ... Tim depends on turnonver and not power ... That has not been the profile of the dominant sprinter for some time ... He is more like a Charlie Green type of sprinter ... Dwain on the other hand reminds me more of Clancy Edwards (power + technique) ... Bob Hayes was much more raw !!! Mo has a unique style (at least unique to HSI) ... Much in the way that Carl Lewis had a unique style !!!

Tim is very light on his feet as he is turning over so rapidly ... He is very different than Ben as Ben was really a power sprinter ... Carl was the finesse guy in that rivalry ... But getting back to Tim he's spinning like a guy in 1st or 2nd gear on a bike ...

Dwain on the other hand is in 7th or 8th gear - grinding it out ... One of the reason I felt earlier that he may not have had sub 9.90 potential ... With the way he powers he has to get into transition sooner than he normally does AND relax more ... He was with Tim til he lost his relaxation ... That is the thing that costs him the most ... But with his build and style THAT is going to be the most important thing as he chases titles ...

Mo is power with efficiency of technique ... What has kept Mo ahead of the pack so far is that he typically runs near flawlessly - same race every time out ... He was unable to do that this year as he was lacking in fitness ...Mo doesn't have the turnover of Tim ... Nor does he use too much power a la Dwain ... He is in between - but technically superior to both ... If he returns there next year he still dominates ... If he doesn't then the event is wide open ... Becasue neither Tim or Dwain have mastered their races yet - not as consistent ...

So will be interesting next season ...

Now the women's 400 ... Ana Guevara is the woman !!! She has had a season better than any Freeman has ever had ... Freeman has run 48.6 but needed to be pulled to that !!!!! Ana has run 49.15 ... She ran slightly slower during the second half, but maintained her distance between the other runners and stayed under 50 !!! Had Fenton run better in the second half I have no doubt that Ana would have gone sub 49 ... She is strong and runs a very evenly paced race ... She has improved her technique and if you watch her is extremely strong AND fluid during the final 100 meters ... SHE is the woman to beat next year ... l was a big Katherine Merry fan last year .... And I like her race ... But Guevara made a quantum move this year !!!!!

Conway

[Dan]

Good analysis. On a similar note, I found it interesting seeing Greene and Chambers side by side this year. In the past, Greene has been the one that looks like a man amongst boys, but he looks absolutely dwarfed by Chambers now. At the other end of the spectrum, Montgomery is listed at the same height and weight as myself (can't say I have quite that build, though), putting Greene right in between the two both physically and in terms of style.

Dan

[Paul]

I feel that Tim is deceptively more powerful than people realize. And Ben was lighter on his feet than he appeared from his physique. Don't forget that Ben achieved a turnover of 5 strides a second.

[Dan]

Ben was pure power at the start, but I think he had some degree of ligthness and "spinning" later in the race. Not to the extent of Tim, but certainly more than Maurice. From what I've seen of Tim, his strength seems to come largely from his torso, whereas Maurice is more arms and quads. Not sure of what significance that is, though.

Dan

[Conway]

Ben and Time were both high turnover sprinters but achieved it differently ...

Ben achieved his by driving quickly off the ground ... Power, but without the extended strike period that most power sprinters have ...

Tim achieves his by lifting his knees - old school sprinting ... When I was coming up the big thing was knee lift - that's what gives the appearance of "lightness" on his feet ... He's not trying to drive off the ground, he is trying to achieve speed of turnover - getting those feet off the ground as quickly as possible ...

Always more than one way to skin a cat ... drive through the thigh downward ... Or drive through the knee upward ... To do either well requires great strength ... Ben needed tremendous strength because he did a bit of both - driving hard against the ground but getting those feet off it as rapidly as possible ... Ben was almost feakish in the way he ran ... He was very unique ... Although FloJo actuallly had elements of Ben in how she ran that last season - and she needed tremendous strength as well ..

Conway

[Dan]

That could explain my lasting perception of Ben that his strength largely came from his calves (couldn't quite think how to describe it earlier), which would lead to an exaggerated ankling or clawing action for rapid push off.

Dan

[Conway]

Exactly ... And FloJo had the same action ... Although she did hers from a "sitting" position ... If that makes any sense ??

Conway

[Paul]

Francis said that Ben was about the only person he knew who could go through the entire race completely on his toes without collapsing on to his midfoot at all.

[Conway]

Ben was strong with a capital S ... And Charlie was right ... Ben hit and lifted before full foot contact was made ... He was a freak ... He did things people don't do ... And THAT wasn't the drugs ... One of the worst things that happened to the sport was he got caught !!!! Not because I support drug use, but because they were on to some special stuff !!!

Conway

[Dan]

Hey, speaking of Ben and the infamous gold medal, did anyone notice Conway quietly slipped into Olympic Medalist status?

Dan

[Dan]

A couple more things that came to mind:

1) I find it interesting that Francis was opposed to supplemental calf strength work, as he felt the added bulk at the end of the lever arm (lower leg) would be a detriment to the efficiency needed for a high rate of turnover. Odd, because it's exactly in that area where Ben seemed to do his damage...

2) One athlete who actually reminds me a bit of Ben's running style is Ato Boldon. Now, it's been ~15 years since seeing Ben run, so I'm going from memory here... Ato at his best seemed to have a similar power and lightness to his stride, plus a rather similar build and general body position. Major difference would be Ato's highly unique foot placement.

Dan

[Conway]

I think he believed this in principle, but Ben was already built that way ... At least when I first saw him in '84 ... Not sure what he looked like before that ... But I find that a funny belief because when you look at some of the quickest sprinters in history you see large calf structures ... And by quick I mean those who are very good at 50 & 60 meters ...

As for Ato and Ben I'm not sure I see any similarities ... Ben exploded out of the blocks and IMMEDIATELY began turning over ... He was into full blown sprinting within his first 3 or 4 strides !!!

Ato (like Mo) has a drive phase that lasts up to 30 meters in some races ... Followed by a transition phase into the sprint and finish ...

HSI guys use a full set of gears during a race ... Ben went from 1st directly to overdrive !!! HE was as different to the 100 as MJ was to the 200 ...

Conway

[Dan]

I didn't mean their race patterns so much as their running styles once up to speed.

Ben vs. Ato at the start is like, well, my uncle's auto... His Miata is so suped up that he doesn't even use 1st gear because it's too low to bother with. Starting in second gear still pins you against the seat, which is probably what Ben felt like coming out of the blocks.

Dan