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Conway

With the recent loses that Mo Greene has suffered there has been much talk of his demise ... I tend to look slightly deeper than that ... If anyone has noticed HSI has been down this year ... Note:

* Ato Boldon competing at around a 10.35 level ..

* Jon Drummond competing at 10.25 level ..

* Has anyone seen Curtis Johnson this year ??

* Bernard Williams moved to Florida (and Dennis Mitchell) and has been up and down - mostly down ...

* And of course Mo who's season has been well documented ... Has run 9.89 twice - one legal and one windy - and has several sub 10s ... But has been 10.0x more often than not and has suffered defeats in four races - not unheard of for him as he has lost this much in a season before, but not with this few races !!!

Now I can think of several reasons for this ... Ato wanting to do some trianing on his own in Trinidad .. Bernard looking for his own identity .. Mo getting started late due to his season ending injury last season ... But as a result this group has been fragmented and not working together for most of the season ...

Their history has shown that as a group they have honed each others skills and created one of the great sprinting dynasties of all time - along with the former Santa Monica Track Club of the 80's early 90's and the San JOse Speed City group of the 1960's ... As the world focuses on Mo are we really seeing the beginning of hte end of this srint dynasty ??? OR is this just a blip on oothe map for both Mo AND the group ???

Conway

Come on Back Justin this topic si aimed at you and Dan as well as others !!!

Dan · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2002 8:28 am Post subject:

I was wondering about Curtis Johnson recently, as well...

You could add to that list Inger Miller's continued injury problems and Christine Arron leaving the group after one unproductive injury-plagued year. Still, I think it's a lot of bad luck as much as anything. Other than Bernard leaving the group, it seems like most of the problems have been related to injuries or off the track stuff (Drummond's marijuana case). They had a long streak of good luck, so I guess it was bound to dump on them before long...

I still think Mo has 2-3 top years left, and the others will probably continue to be at least fringe world class. They've still got Larry Wade, and with John Smith not splitting his attention with UCLA, it seems like they've got the tools to pull in more young talent.

Dan

Conway · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2002 10:07 am Post subject:

Dan · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2002 10:29 am Post subject:

There's no question that daily competition is important for climbing to the top, but I'm not so sure it's a necessity to remain there. Once someone has developed a level of confidence and maturity, good coaching and motivation should make up for a lot. If anything, I think a top athlete needs less competition as they get older -- less chance of injury in practice and much of what they need to do to perform is already ingrained.

Dan

Conway · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2002 10:49 am Post subject:

Hmmm ... I sort of disagree ... I agree with the ingrained technique and coaching ability, confidence level etc .. However, without that day to day physical push that one gets from his peers it is still difficult to perform ... you rarely see a solo top quality athlete ... There is usually at least one more - and sometimes more ... John Carlos, Tommie Smith, Lee Evans, Ronnie Ray Smith will all tell you that it was the daily interaction/competitoin with each other that made them great ... So will Lewis/Burrell/Marsh ... And I think Mo/Ato/Jon will tell you the same ... Without each other they are still good - but probably not great ...

Look at high schools and colleges that have traditions in certain events ... They always have multiple top level performers ... And the day that stops is the day the program begins to die ... My favorite example is USC and sprinting ... Somewhere during the 80's recruiting dried up ... Sprinters started going elsewhere ... And now you can't find a world class sprint man anywhere near USC ... But look at TCU, LSU, Tenn ... Thumbs Up

Conway

Dan · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2002 11:52 am Post subject:

I agree with all that, but are there any examples of dying programs where the top athlete remained in place? That's where Mo fits, and I can't think of any comparable situations...

Dan

Conway · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2002 12:21 pm Post subject:

I can't think of any !!! I mean if this season is Mo without the group he is still a formidable individual ... How many athletes would like ot run 9.89 in a down season ??? But it is the winning that I think may become more difficult, as we have seen this year ... It is my opinion that winning is something that takes plaace daily - not just when one comes to the line to compete ...

I'll give you another example on a global level - Canada ... Surin was on his way up, but became solid as Bailey came along ... And both were high quality until injuries came along ... And then they declined TOGETHER ...

Jamaica has struggled since Raymond Stewart ...

Britain has had a steady stream of guys since Linford because they developed some 10.0x/10.1x types while he was competing ... Now they are forcing each other lower ...

But I've seen no one at the top by themself ... Borzov had Korneliuk ... Mennea had Simionato ... Mo has had Ato - and a few others ...

Conway

Dan · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2002 12:28 pm Post subject:

It's probably safe to say that daily competition gives an athlete the winning edge, which could be the difference between a ho-hum 10.05 and a any ol' day 9.95, which is what we've been seeing from Mo this season. Of course, did people like Bailey and Surin ever really train together?

Dan

Conway · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2002 12:37 pm Post subject:

I'm not sure ... I was under the impression that they worked with Pfaff but could be wrong ... But even if they didn't during the early season, don't wountries other than the US get their athletes together for camps and what not prior to major competitions (which is where we saw the primary marks for the Canadians - as we do most non US sprinters) ?? Or is that just me thinking about how I would run things ... Wink

Conway

Dan · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:02 pm Post subject:

I vaguely recall Surin joining Pfaff's group for a brief period late in his career, but I was under the impression that he and Bailey didn't like each other all that much and saw each other primarily as competitors, even when on the relay together...

As for national camps, all I've read with regards to that is from Francis' group in the 80's. They seemed to operate independently of any national organization, which was fitting because there didn't seem to be any organization nationally. Smile

Dan

Conway · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:07 pm Post subject:

Then prehpas I am off a bit in that regards ... Embarassed

... Interesting though becasue everything else fits, so it would seem that there is some correlation ...

Conway

Dan · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:17 pm Post subject:

Maybe just pride and ego driving both of them to want to be #1 in their country? That can be a pretty big motivator. Once gone, and with injuries setting in, decline would seem natural.

Dan

Conway · Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 9:07 am Post subject:

Is there pride anymore ??? Or have athletes become the ultimate mercenaries ??? The reason I ask (and I may be vearing off topic but not really) is that the motivating factor now seems to be money ... Unless your country is hosting a major word event ...

If pride were prevelent there would be many sprinters running the 200 that currently don't bohter with it - because there is basically no money in the event ...

If pride were prevelent, guys wouldn't forgo the Naitonal Championships in order ot fine tune for Europe ...

And I consider this ot be on topic, because I view this as part of the changing landscape of sprinting .... Focus on the money events and the oney races .. Period ... If it pays a buck train for it ... If it doesn't pay then don't bother ...

Going back to the previous conversation, I would think that the pursuit of money will draw more and more big names together - especiallly on a national basis ...

Conway

Dan · Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 9:23 am Post subject:

Conway · Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2002 10:06 am Post subject:

Sprinters and ego ... Not THAT is a novel idea ... Thumbs Up

Kidding aside, I'm not sure that ego would address the idea of National development of sprinters ... Is it really a big deal to be the fastest man in Canada ??? Or Britain ??? I guess I always assume that the goal is to be the fastest man, period !!! But I guess your goal has ot start somewhere ... Course I can see where in Canada and Britain there are icons to try ot measure up to .. Initially it was Ben in Canada - now Bruny and Donovan ... And in Britain it is Linford ... But my own personal way of thinking would place them as stepping stones to measure how close one is getting to fastest in the world !!!!

Conway

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