Run-Down Forums

Micah Ward · Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2000 6:32 am Post subject:

Leechboy, You are absolutely right about the Japanese woman. She ran an incredible time. Can you imagine knocking off 62 miles at about a 6:30 pace? I haven't run that pace in years!!!

brutal · Water Boy Joined: 17 Jul 2001 Posts: 15

That would be Lon Myers the only man to hold the American record in the 50 100 400 800 and the mile!

Micah Ward · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2001 11:58 am Post subject:

OK Brutal, you got me here. Who is Lon Myers and when did he hold these records?

brutal · Water Boy Joined: 17 Jul 2001 Posts: 15

Laurence (Lon) Myers was born Feb 16 1858 in Richmond Virg, he died in 1899.

He held World records in the 400 and the 800. He was the first runner in history to break 50.0.

Set World mark of 49.2 in 1879. In 1881 lowered that to 48.6. Also in 81 ran a 1:56 for the 800 WR. Would lower that to 1:55.4 in 84.

At one time held all the US records from 50 to the mile. Had best's of 10.0 22.6 48.6 1:55.4 4:27.6. Won 14 national titled in his career.
Won 4 titles alone in 1880.

As you can see as a runner vs. his era nobody as ever done better.

Dan · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2001 4:27 pm Post subject:

brutal · Water Boy Joined: 17 Jul 2001 Posts: 15

You could say the same about Jim Thorpe, Jesse Owens, Bob Mathias and Wilma Rudolph.

There are kids in high school that could beat any of them.

When I look at athlectic performances I look at what they had to work with and the environment they were in.

Myers did more with what he had than anyone has since. There is a big difference between greatness and fastest!

Greatness is about winning and setting records. He certainly did that!
Greatness is about being head and shoulders above the competition. He obviously was that.

Look at Babe Ruth or Rocky Marciano. Could they do the things they did back then .....today?
Of course not! Are they not among the greatest ever??? Absolutely!.....WHY???

Dan · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2001 7:07 pm Post subject:

I agree that greatness is about much more than just being the fastest. Just see the preceeding discussion for evidence of that. However, there are so many aspects to this debate that cannot really be qualified. How do you compare one athlete to another along the lines of doing more than what he/she had than anyone else? Isn't that akin to saying he's the greatest because that's your opinion?

Each generation faces deeper overall competition. How much deeper is tough to say, but few would argue with the general trend. It's unfair to ignore that aspect in crowning earlier generations' greats as the greatest, as it was simply easier to dominate for several reasons, including less event specialization

I have no idea what your age is, but the vast majority of these discussions seem to end with each person choosing the "greatest" as being the best at the time of their formative years in the sport. Heck, that's true for all sports. Someone in their 60's will rarely say Jordan is the best player ever, just as someone in their 20's will say the same of Wilt.

Dan

brutal · Water Boy Joined: 17 Jul 2001 Posts: 15

I am 30.

I don't make statements concerning who is this or that unless I have done my homework. I want it all!!! I don't care what era he was from. Not a "groupie" a fan!
To think that one dude could be the best in a country like America in the 50 yard dash then turn around a go beat everyone in the mile run blows my mind! Who do you compare him to? Try nobody!!!
Myers was "unigue" I give that a lot of respect.
Look at Jimmy Brown the great Cleveland Browns fullback he had a lifetime avg of 5.4 yards a carry!! NOBODY!!!..has ever been so dominate. Could he do that today?...NOWAY!!! Brown was 6-2 228 linebacks were 220 and def linemen 260. He played against midgets(by todays standards) does that diminsh his greatness??...Nope!!!
It's all about being the best! It doesn't matter....when!!!!!!

Dan · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2001 4:47 am Post subject:

brutal · Water Boy Joined: 17 Jul 2001 Posts: 15

I am a big blues fan and have a huge collection of music from the very beginning the 1920's. This stuff is so raw and primitive, something that is lost forever it will never be duplicated...impossible!!!

My point there was that some things you just can't judge by what time period they occured in or what were the surrounding circumstances. You just take them for what they actually were. There are no Blind Lemon Jeffersons or Charley Pattons today. There are also no Lon Myers or Jim Thorpe's there will never be another Sugar Ray Robinson or Muhammad Ali.

Don't diminish these guys greatness because they didn't resemble todays standards. They were special and deserve all the praise they can get.

Lon Myers did things nobody has ever done he
was amazing ........just that simple!

Dan · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2001 6:25 am Post subject:

I'm more than happy to agree with everything you have said ... up till the point where such people are introduced into "greatest ever" consideration, which is what this discussion is about. At that point, there is no way to proceed without analyzing the merits of the raw performances, and that cannot be done without looking at the overall picture.

I consider that just as simple as your saying Myers was better than the others because no one has duplicated his feats. There are a heck of a lot more feats by others that he never (pre-)duplicated, again because of the time he competed and the standards of the day.

Dan

Guest · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2001 6:43 am Post subject:

Hey Brutal
I totally agree with you , the athletes of the past never had the equipment and training facilities that we have today. Babe ruth didn't have an awesome baseball bat to play with, and Pre never had the best of tracks to run on either. They were legends and will always be one of the best. They deserve to be recognized because they were the ones who raised the standards, who knows where we would have been with out them......

brutal · Water Boy Joined: 17 Jul 2001 Posts: 15

BINGO!!!!!!....we have a winner!!!....Later bro!

Dan · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:30 am Post subject:

Hmm, so neither of you see a difference between milestone achievements and best ever? I guess that's why companies always try to pitch products as the first of their type...

Dan

Micah Ward · Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2001 11:44 am Post subject:

This has been an amazing discussion and continues on and on. I think everyone has made excellent points and really brought home the fact that it is impossible to develop a fool proof way to compare runners (baseball players, musicians, etc.) from different eras. But then, nothing is fool proof for a sufficently talented fool, so maybe some one will come up with a way to compare talent across the years. Until then...ON WITH THE DEBATE!!!!

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