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Nick Symmonds 3:56.72 mile
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Indeurr
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As to Symmonds, he may become Borzakovskyi's nemesis: both are great runners from down to 400 meters up to 5K, but Symmonds is more of a long—distance half-miler, and Borzakovskyi is more of a half-and-quarter—miler. If Borzakovskyi would have a misfortune of being placed in the same preliminary heats with Symmonds, Symmonds could make him work so hard mentally and physically that by the final Borzakovskyi would be out of steam.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't take long for a video of the race to get posted...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz3GKwplYZ8

Quote:
However, it can backfire in two more ways besides the above—mentioned: either you fall short of qualifying, or possibly, you may have to go through two qualifying heats within a day: in this case the so-called lactic—acid build-up could make you unable to surge at the end

Not to worry, Nick has years of experience running in that fashion and has yet to falter. He's proven himself quite capable of handling the rounds against supposedly superior, fresh athletes.

Quote:
If Borzakovskyi would have a misfortune of being placed in the same preliminary heats with Symmonds, Symmonds could make him work so hard mentally and physically that by the final Borzakovskyi would be out of steam.

Actually, I think they would enjoy racing each other, knowing that they have very similar strategies, they could make it easier on each other by doing the chasing in tandem, thus using less energy. The Final would be a different matter.

Nick's range extends up to the mile, but he's been erratic in the XC-type distances. He's much more capable of a fast 400 than 5k.

Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After Nick's 1:44.10 US Championship, I figure this thread deserves a bump... Amazing to look back.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was amazed to come backl and see so little talk on the trials... That was such a great race to watch. I am happy that Smith worked so hard and came back and got the standard in the \race - but also disappointed that KD does not get to go to the OLympics.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Robinson ran an absolutely terrible race. The TV commentators fell into the same mental trap of thinking the only way to beat a kicker is to take it out fast. Dumb. Someone like Symmonds is going to hang back off the pace regardless, so all that does is play into his hands when he's ready to move up and the rest of the field is tying up.

I was fortunate enough to be there that day, sitting right on the finish line (I've never heard such deafening crowd noise) and it was obvious that Robinson and Johnson were racing each other the the first lap, not just pushing the pace. There was never any chance they were going to hold on.

Rookie mistake by two of the most veteran runners in the field. They deserved to stay home (from Beijing) as a result.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well realize also who KD's coach is - the king of taking it out fast. It is a way to do it if you can hold on. Coe went out in 50 point and came back in 50 point so Symmonds would not be reeling him in. No KD is not that caliber, but if you can hold on like those 2 juniors can Kaki and Rudishah... Just look at Jelimo on the womens side I dont care how good a kicker anyone is they are not catching her...

Thats Amazing that you got there on that day - how freaking awesome was it... Never been all that impressed with Johnson but I can see where it could have been that.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's just it, you have to be vastly superior to the kicker to take it out like that and hold on. Either that or hope the kicker will get suckered in to going too fast themselves. Since the odds of either being the case were extremely slim, taking into account the people involved, it was simply a stupid strategy.

The proper approach, in my opinion, is to attack the middle of the race -- right when the kicker is trying to position for their own move.

We were 11 rows up, exactly on the finish line. Couldn't ask for much better seats.

Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed - However he has already in the past two seasons run 1:44 ish with those tactics and I assume he thought that would get through in the top 3 with it... Oh well I think we are saying basically the same thing here but from different angles...

As far as where to attack in the race you are exactly right (IMO) and where I teach my athletes to attack as well. Wound up getting one through to the JO natls in a few weeks which is cool the othe one who got to the Association Finals just missed - ironically by going out too fast but she is still very young and learning. I have to tell you I am almost happy that she did it that way because I think she finally realizes that she can run at that faster pace now because of it... bad place to find out the lesson but good that I think she can go from there and take it to the next level
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree somewhat that he's run those times with the same tactics. There's a difference between pushing the pace on the first lap (and having something left for the end) and racing the first lap. There was absolutely no doubt in my mind that Khadevis was dead in the water with 400-500m to go.

What sort of time did your girl run?

Our top girl finally got the hang of attacking the middle of the race in her State prelim this year and led the first 720m of it (wasn't used to leading with 200m to go and relaxed too soon, otherwise she would have led wire to wire), lowering her PR and school record by over 3.5 seconds in the process.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that in this race you were correct

just at Pre a few weeks ago he was 1:44.5 off of a 51.0 first lap - he opened in 50.4 at the trials... I am pretty sure he was close to that last year at the US champs and ran 1:44.3 so well it doesnt matter at this point now does it

She has been steadily improving and ran a 2:33 for 800m most of the other races she had run perfectly attacking right in that second 400 pushing into third place and holding everyone off but had run more in the 2:38 range so to drop 5 secs is great even if tactically wrong... but now she knows she can be down there I think I can get it rolling. probably 2 more low key races just for fun and then get some easy running in for August
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait a second, he's 25 when did he start running?

I'm curious because Hicham broke mile world record at 25 starting to run from 16. Morceli himself also was doing pretty well on the mile during his 20s, and German Fernandez ran 4:22 as a freshman in highschool (but he just started to run early). What type of training does he do?
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Symmonds started running seriously a year or so into high school, as I recall. Hockey was his main sport initially.

AM, that's some great improvement in one race! The big test now is consistency at the new level. I think we've all had those one-hit wonder improvements... Neutral

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He even made a hockey quote regarding his race at Eugene - that it was a little hockey move that got him free in the 800 for the win...

She has been steadily improving as she has taken the training and the tactics seriously... of course she will improve being new but it wasnt just one time when we started she was running somewhere around 2:47ish

first meet prelims for 800 2:44 enough to move up next race 2:38, then doen to the 2:33

this coupled with bringing her 400 PR in some of the same meets down to 64...

And thats just one of them... also another one who got through to Nationals - hopefully down around 5:00 for 1500...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick had that hockey side step move on display regularly at Willamette...

64 speed for 400? Sounds like she needs to work more on the endurance side of the equation. Our girl ran 2:17 off of mid-62 and up.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

agreed... on the edurance front 100% its there but before me there was almost none of it... she was basically doing mostly 400's and the occasioal 8 - saw right away that the 8 is going to be very good for her. I hope to get her going on some endurance work in August and run XC in the fall

Also realize this girl is 13 so right now its all about getting her comfortable and learning what to do...

We will see what happens this weekend...
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