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I need your support
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Indeurr
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:32 am    Post subject: I need your support Reply with quote

___So many athletes cry about being assigned lane one by the cruel means of lottery. When it comes to the semifinal and final heats or races, I agree with them.
___There has to be a simple arbitrary solution. The solution that I propose is simple. I know many purists of the track and field hate holding three semifinal heats, but in my opinion this is the best and cheapest solution.
___With three heats in the semifinal the use of lane one may be simply abolished. I propose for the 200 meter --, 400 meter--, and 400 meters hurdle--, 4 x 100 meters relay--, and 4 x 400 meters relay-- races three semifinal heats, each with field of seven runners: 21 total.
___Top two teams or athletes from each heat should qualify to the final as well as two fastest runners-up.
___The slower runner-up should be assigned lane one; and the slowest qualifier overall besides the slower--runner-up qualifier should be assigned lane two.
___The winners should be assigned lanes 4, 5, and 6 by the means of lottery;
___and the remaining teams or athletes should be assigned lanes 3, 7, and 8 by the means of lottery as well -- just like now.
____
___
__

I need your support to get it before the USATF-NJ, USATF, and IAAF or at least EAA.
Over next few days, I will try to get support from some Plosh athletes like Marcin Urbas, the Polish national record holder (I used to make his unofficial / official web page), or Mackowiak (anchored Poland in Lisbon, the World Indoor Championships, Portugal to deal the only second place finish over the last 12 years to the team USA in the men's 4 x 400 meters relay -- I bet that Jerome Young has not forgotten that sad event, Mackowiak ran by him on the last straight away. Jerome was 20 yards from the gold medal.)
I believe that Urbas should support me because he is even mad when he has to run in lane three. I hope that Urbas, Jedrusinski, in 200 meters, Chyla, in 100 meters, and together in the 4 x 100 meters will show well this year.
As a native of Poland, I would consider them successful, if one the 200 meter specialists got to the final, Chyla got to the semifinal, and the 4 x 100 meters relay won a medal or nearly missed it in the 4-th place because a 4-th place finish should give them a medal within a year (if yoiu catch my drift Wink ). I know it is not funny.
A disaster would be if: none of the 200 meters specialists got to the semifinal, Chyla did not get to the quaterfinal, and the relay placed sixth or worse in the final, or did not get to the final, or got lane one in the final.


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Robert "indeur" "Hornet" "Drago" "former scooter 69" Kolakowski
138 Ripley Place, Apt 2, Elizabeth, New Jersey, 07206
[previously, unofficially until April 1, officialy until August 1, 2003 at 1093 Sheridan Avenue, Apt. B, Elizabeth, New Jersey, 07208]
Born: Bialystok, Podlasie, POLAND, on 12/28/1973
kolakows@pegasus.rutgers.edu

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Last edited by Indeurr on Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dan
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Joined: 22 Mar 1999
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Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Semis and Finals are seeded by time. If you don't like your lane draw, run faster in Prelims next time. What's the big beal? Confused

Dan
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Indeurr
Olympic Medalist
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Joined: 08 Aug 2001
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Location: Elizabeth, NJ, 07202

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
Semis and Finals are seeded by time. If you don't like your lane draw, run faster in Prelims next time. What's the big beal? Confused

Dan


How does the system exactly work?
Can an athlete with the slowest time from the eliminations not get lane 1, but let say lane 8 or 2? Is the lottery still in place? I believe that lane one should not be assigned due to a lottery like it was at least in the past. I believe that lane one should be always assigned to the slowest runner(s) from the preceding elimination.




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"Drago" "indeur" "Hornet" "former Scooter 69" "Kolaczek"
12/28/1973
kolakows@pegasus.rutgers.edu
138 Ripley Place, Apt. 2, Elizabeth, NJ, 07206
[used to live at 1093 Sheridan Avenue, Apt. B, Elizabeth, NJ 07208 untill April, 2003, and officially moved on August 1, 2003]
908-558-7487
BORN: Bialystok, Podlasie, Poland/Polska
Quit with Elizabeth Police Department / City of Elizabeth, NJ, USA
on October 20, 2003, effective October 21, 2003
_________________
http://vincovitanj.tripod.com/Do_not_be_a_victim1/index.htmlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u43o595CARQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x22Alfgv0DY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgcD2akmeJc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB0RcWYMwXU
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Conway
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Joined: 25 Aug 2001
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually its a lottery based on times/places ... Top 4 places draw for the 4 inside lanes (3,4,5,6) Slow 4 draw for the 4 outside lanes (1,2 7,8 ) ... So, its real clear - run well and place well and you get a good lane ... If you don't you get a poor lane ...
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Paul
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That kind of lottery makes sense to me.
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Indeurr
Olympic Medalist
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Joined: 08 Aug 2001
Posts: 1558
Location: Elizabeth, NJ, 07202

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
That kind of lottery makes sense to me.

___The lottery is unjust.
___I believe that the slowest athlete should get the lane one. However, to do so there has to be a point in the eliminations when the lane one is excluded.
___I admit that my proposition to have three semifinal heats with seven athletes each might have been wrong in the eyes of the track and field purists. However, to me this would be part of a just solution "you put yourself in the lane one."
___It does make sense to not use lane one in the semifinal because the semifinal heats determine the lane draw in the final. In addition with 21 athletes in the semifinal instead of 16, no athlete can honestly say that he did deserve to be in the semifinal, but was deprived of this opportunity by a bad lane draw in the quarterfinal or preliminary heats.


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Robert "indeur" "Hornet" "Drago" "former scooter 69" "pecunia" Kolakowski
138 Ripley Place, Apt 2, Elizabeth, New Jersey, 07206
[previously, unofficially until April 1, officialy until August 1, 2003 at 1093 Sheridan Avenue, Apt. B, Elizabeth, New Jersey, 07208]
Born: Bialystok, Podlasie, POLAND, on 12/28/1973
kolakows@pegasus.rutgers.edu
---
---
---
quit with Elizabeth Police Department / City of Elizabeth, New Jersey, USA on October 20, effective Octobert 21, 2003.
---
_________________
http://vincovitanj.tripod.com/Do_not_be_a_victim1/index.htmlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u43o595CARQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x22Alfgv0DY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgcD2akmeJc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB0RcWYMwXU
one hand clapping
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Dan
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Joined: 22 Mar 1999
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Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I believe that the slowest athlete should get the lane one

It's done to account for differences in head to head competition between heats. One heat might have a headwind and the other a tailwind, or one heat might have someone that pulled everyone to a faster time. Because the people in the slower heat didn't have the same opportunity, they are rewarded for how they fared competitively instead of just on the clock. It isn't perfect, but it makes as much sense as any system.

Dan
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Indeurr
Olympic Medalist
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Joined: 08 Aug 2001
Posts: 1558
Location: Elizabeth, NJ, 07202

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
Quote:
I believe that the slowest athlete should get the lane one

It's done to account for differences in head to head competition between heats. One heat might have a headwind and the other a tailwind, or one heat might have someone that pulled everyone to a faster time. Because the people in the slower heat didn't have the same opportunity, they are rewarded for how they fared competitively instead of just on the clock. It isn't perfect, but it makes as much sense as any system.

Dan

___I see your point, but I think that the justice would be better served with three heats of seven athletes. With the three heats the top two in each heat would adavance any way, and the slower of the two athletes advancing based on time would be placed in lane one.
_________________
http://vincovitanj.tripod.com/Do_not_be_a_victim1/index.htmlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u43o595CARQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x22Alfgv0DY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgcD2akmeJc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB0RcWYMwXU
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm guessing you've never managed a track meet... The last thing anyone wants is empty lanes and more heets.

Dan
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Indeurr
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Joined: 08 Aug 2001
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Location: Elizabeth, NJ, 07202

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
I'm guessing you've never managed a track meet... The last thing anyone wants is empty lanes and more heets.

Dan


___I see your point, but I have to clarify something here. I am referring to the continental/area, world, and Olympic championships, and not a track meet.
___By the way, I believe that the US women in the semifinal heat of the 4 x 100 meters, and the Polish men in the semifinal heat of the 4 x 100 meters would not as easily agree with you. Both the American women and the Polish men would not have deserved to run in lane one, if the quarterfinal heats were held. However, in the case of the relay events, the field of teams was decreased to 16-teen. I believe that the lane assignment was based on the sheer lock or pure lottery.
___The American women placed second, and the Polish men fourth (before the British team got disqualified, fifth) in the last world championships. Both teams advanced to the Olympics with the best two combined times placing them in the top 5 - - five of the IAAF lists.

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Robert "indeur" "Hornet" "Drago" "former scooter 69" "pecunia" Kolakowski
138 Ripley Place, Apt 2, Elizabeth, New Jersey, 07206
[previously, unofficially until April 1, officialy until August 1, 2003 at 1093 Sheridan Avenue, Apt. B, Elizabeth, New Jersey, 07208]
Born: Bialystok, Podlasie, POLAND, on 12/28/1973
kolakows@pegasus.rutgers.edu
---
---
---
quit with Elizabeth Police Department / City of Elizabeth, New Jersey, USA on October 20, effective Octobert 21, 2003.
_________________
http://vincovitanj.tripod.com/Do_not_be_a_victim1/index.htmlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u43o595CARQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x22Alfgv0DY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgcD2akmeJc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB0RcWYMwXU
one hand clapping
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am referring to the continental/area, world, and Olympic championships, and not a track meet.

There's a difference? Confused Organized management is organized management, and enjoyable spectating is enjoyable spectating...

Dan
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Indeurr
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Joined: 08 Aug 2001
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Location: Elizabeth, NJ, 07202

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
Quote:
I am referring to the continental/area, world, and Olympic championships, and not a track meet.

There's a difference? Confused Organized management is organized management, and enjoyable spectating is enjoyable spectating...

Dan

___I agree, but an extra effort should be made for the biggest meet of the year.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x22Alfgv0DY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgcD2akmeJc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB0RcWYMwXU
one hand clapping
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
an extra effort should be made for the biggest meet of the year.

Yeah, and it should be enjoyable to view, or there isn't much point. Lots of small heats doesn't fit the bill for many people. Trust me, I've seen first hand as an organizer what happens when people get tired of waiting for 9+ heats of the 200m at the end of a huge invite...

Dan
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