Run-Down Forums

Conway · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 11:12 am Post subject: What If ???

What if ... Things had been different ... If someone had changed events or stayed in the sport longer ... How would things have been different ... EVer thought about that ... LIke what if Tommie Smith had competed until he was 30 ??? Or 35 ... What if Pre hadn't had the accident ... I know all pure speculation ... But could be fun til the next season (indoors) gets under way ... Anyone interested ???? Could start with Pre - the greatest speculation of all ...

I gather that he would have been prepared for Montreal ... Would have entered the stadium like a rock star !!!! Crowd would have been his and he would have run accordingly ... Pre wins gold and the American distance community is forever changed ... Pre and Shorter leading the way .. Training methods and race tactics would be modified to win from the front !!!!

Sure the African movement comes but American mind sets are different and we keep up with the changing standards ... Scott and Holman develop into front running, winning demons !!!! Americans become like the Spaniards - threats to medal despite the Africans ... Wink

Or does a different scenario develeop ??
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Conway
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Dan · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 11:38 am Post subject:

As much as I would like to have seem that vision become reality, I'm not so sure Pre would have fared any better against Viren than he did the first time around. Viren knew how to run a championship race, and I think he was only 2 years older than Pre.

How 'bout what if Devers hadn't stumbled over that last hurdle... Would she be considered one of the greatest Olympians ever?

What if FloJo hadn't left the sport abruptly (and subsequently managed to not test positive)? Would we have records in the 10.2x and 21.0x range? It's not like her '88 breakthrough was the culmination of several years of steady progress, so there may well have been more where that came from.

What if the Eastern Bloc remained intact? What would the international sporting landscape look like today?

What if Run-Down never came to be? Crying or Very sad

Dan

Conway · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 12:01 pm Post subject:

Hmm ... I'll wait for some other distance guys to wound in on Pre ...

Devers ... Nope .. Casue if she doesn't fall over that hurdle she focuses on the hurdles and forgets the 100 altogether ... I think htat fall is what kept her in the 100 so long ... If you notice as she has done better over time inthe hurdles she has backed off on the 100 ...

FloJo ... I have trouble with your parameters becasue drug testing intensity was high after the 88 Olympics and the testers were just about even with the users ... So would lhave been very dificult to avoid testing positive ... That is if you were using of course !!! So I say the records remain as is ... Now taking your hypothisis at face value, she goes 10.20/20.80 and the testers go into hyperdrive to keep up with the users ... She does get caught (post career) ... The records are rescinded and the whole drug user lanscape is forever changed !!! And Marion never re-enters the sport from basketball ...

The Eastern Bloc - would have made the Chinese irrelevent !!! FloJo would have been chasing 10.10/20.50 records ... Privalova would have been the preimminent sptinter of the 90' and today ... And Kederis would still have a PR of 19.86 ...

We won't speculate on Run Down ...
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Dan · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 12:23 pm Post subject:

Those are some bold predictions! Of course, it helps that you can't be proven wrong. Smile

You may well be right about Devers. The hurdles failures probably made her hungrier in the 100. I was thinking more along the lines of all else being held equal... Would her 100m wins and relay success, combined with hurdles victories, be enough to place her amongst the best ever?

Dan

Conway · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 12:37 pm Post subject:

Dan · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 1:43 pm Post subject:

I figured Ben was too obvious a choice for inclusion in this well-grounded thread... Smile

I think we would have had a 100m record in the high 9.5 to low 9.6 range by Barcelona, and Carl Lewis would have been a forgotten man in the sprints post-'84. We'd also have had people all over the world trying to immitate Ben's start and mechanics (he was busted just about the time he came to true prominence, thus minimal racing exposure) to no avail...

Dan

Distance_Guru · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 3:11 pm Post subject:

I think that Viren vs Pre in Montreal would have been one of the greatest races ever. Viren was a monster who was virtually unbeatable on the Olympic stage, Pre was a rock star and fed off crowds and that crowd would have been roaring for him. Who wins? I don't know but I really wish I could watch.

Of coarse if you want to talk distance running what ifs. Herb Elliot, in my opinion the most talented runner ever. Never lost a 1500/mile race... ever!
He won several championships and retired at 22 or 23. If he's devotes himself to the sport and stays in it until he's 29 who knows how he would have rewriten the record book.

I actually wish the eastern block had remained intact from a sporting perspective. Back then it was us against them the west vs the east. Now in the sprints it's the US vs the Caribean, Britan and one guy from Greece while in the distances its the world vs Kenya and Ethiopia (I'm still trying to figure out how the world isn't at least competitive in this one). In other words the rivalries that once defined the Olympics aren't what they used to be.

FloJo sticks around and one of two things happen either she's busted for some kind of doping. Or she gets injuried and never rises to her previous level. I think she was a case of magical timing. She has a dramatic improvement at just the right time to grab the Olympic spot light along with the hearts of a nation, then retires shortly after so that we remeber her only as the unstoppable athelte with the long painted finger nails and one legged tights.
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Conway · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 3:43 pm Post subject:

Wow ... I totally agree about Ben ... As a matter of fact ... Carl would lhave been gone by 91 Worlds ... And the rise of both Christie and Bailey never happens ... It wouldn't have been until Greene and Boldon came along that he would have had semi equals ... Training of course is altered and I believe Mo is at 9.6x ... By now Ben is out of the picture and 9.7 becomes the expected norm for an elite athlete ...

I also agree with DGs assessments .. Pre v Viren would have been an all time classic ... And the fall of the eastern bloc did take a lot of the fun out of the sport ...
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Micah Ward · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 2:03 pm Post subject:

Gee...have I mentioned Ann Trason lately? Wink

She has a marathon PR under 2:40 and she never trained specifically for that event. What if she had concentrated on the marathon 10-12 years ago? Pobably an Olympian and probably a medal.
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will · Water Boy Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 70 Location: South

What if Ryun had never fallen! Oh, what about if Lundgren learned how to pace!!!!! Okay, what if Houston McTear stayed in the game and out of the coke game!!!!! What if Viren would have married Doris Heritage Brown!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Okay, here we go, the running child of Geb and Radcliffe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Conway · Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2002 10:20 am Post subject:

I think falling was good for Ryun ... Only cause I think he was going to lose anyway ... FAlling gave him an excuse other than simply getting beaten ... Ryun doen't fall he gets bronze and then his aura is gone ... Sad

Hmmm ... I thought LIndgren DID have a pace ... LOL ... Pace would've ruined him I think ... Taken his edge off ... Same for Pre ...

Now McTEar ... Perhaps the greatest natural sprinter ever born ... Just fast period ... Never properly trained ... Let's say he continues and connects with Charlie Francis !!!!! HE goes 9.50 and the sprints are NEVER the same ... Carl never happens, Ben never happens ... But Sanford does ... And he and HOuston have some monster battles ... Sanford and McTear on Ben's regimen put the 100 & 200 out of site ... Sanford goes 9.55 and 19.00 and MJ never happens ...

And in the year 2025 Paul Gebressellasie runs 2:01.30 !!!!!
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Dan · Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:16 pm Post subject:

Those are some heavy weight what-if's!! Surprised

I wish I had gotten a chance to see McTear run...

Conway, I'm curious why you say later athletes never would have happened had an earlier athlete hit the right circumstances and set a higher precedent? It seems equally likely to me that later athletes of the like of Ben, Carl, and MJ simply would have had a higher standard to aim for. They may not necessarily have been record setters or as dominant on the all-time list, but I don't see them being adversely affected by having a tougher record to chase.

Dan

Conway · Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2002 2:43 pm Post subject:

When I say never would have happened I do not mean wouldn't have competed ... I simply mean they would have been average at best considering the standard set before them ... Ergo no multiple number one rankings ... No Oly or World medals ... Ergo no one would have talked about them ... It would have been as if they had never happened !!!!

Without calling a spade a spade,I will simply say it is my belief they maxed their potential based on all available knowledge of the present .... They had and utilized the best of the best ....

One could say that MJ eventually ran 19.32 ... But he would have been able to get to Atlanta in order to do that .... And it is my belief that as a 19.8x sprinter THAT wouldln't have done it ... If things had been different ...

Same for Carl ... 9.99 would NOT have won in 1984 had McTear and Sanford been around ... Period ...
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Dan · Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2002 3:09 pm Post subject:

I take it you're assuming (in this hypothetical situation) that someone like McTear would have had a long enough career to keep subsequent record setters at bay, not just setting a high standard to discourage them from attaining such heights?

Dan

Conway · Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2002 6:55 pm Post subject:

why absolutely ... If we're going ot hypothesize Very Happy

... The assumption would be a lengthy career if one is at the top of the game ... And of course minimal injuries ...
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