Run-Down Forums

[Hammer]

Conway-Well put but in every distance race (stuff) happens. In races over 400m the shorter the race is the easier it is to RUN YOU OWN RACE. In longer races a runner must adjust to the pace set or set the pace. For example if the pace is fast a runner either has to stay with the pack or drop off of the pace and thus take on the wind by themselves. If the pace is slow then a runner can take the lead and thus take on the wind by themselves.

[Conway]

Agreed ... All the more reason to work at becoming physically better than the opposition OR extremely disciplined
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Conway
Speed Thrills

[Hammer]

Obviosly preparation will lead to better times but it doesn't guarantee them. That's a major difference between sprints and distance races. In the 400m one should always "run their own race" and because everyone runs in thier own lane that is relativly easy (compared to a distance race.) But I've seen an indoor 400m where the compedators were allowed to cut in after 1 lap and those runners did not "run thier own race" they ran the race needed to win; which was to sprint out hard get the lead and then hug the inside lane so that they didn't have to run extra on the turns.

And that's what distance runners must do every race, "run the race that will produce a win." Distance runner are dependent on the "pack" to help them in the race. Sprinters are not, Conway even noted that some sprinters can run better without good competition. Distance runners need good competition or rabbits to help them, which is why they can't always run their own race.

[Conway]

Using the indoor 400 as an example doesn't work too well as that race (as are most indoor races) has little bearing on the outdoor 400 ... If you want to look at the 400 without lanes lets try to 4x4 .... Now that will give you a better indication of true 400 running ....

And interestingly enough when you look at 4x4 splits (and matchups) what you see are guys that tend to go out faster than they normally would .. And low and behold what hapens is that MOST end up running faster ... Lots of guys run splits that are up to a second (and more) better than they did in their open races !!!!

And when you look at other splits (4x800, 4x1500) you will see similar improvements ... Why ??? BEcasue guys tend to run less inhibited ... They "let it all out" for the good of the team ... And find out in the process that they are better than they race .... Typically this is becasue of faster early racing on relay legs instead of waiting and kicking !!!
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Conway
Speed Thrills

[Hammer]

What I was trying to get at was that in sprinting, the fact that everyone must stay in their lanes makes it easier for them to run their own race while distance runners often must rely on their competition. In the indoor 400m (and in the 4X400) the competition becomes a major factor and the sprinter must employ some strategy.

[Paul]

Do any of you think that the 800 will reach a point that it will have to be contested in individual lanes?? I realize that would be quite a stagger!!

[Distance_Guru]

I certainly hope not. For my money the 800 is the best race to watch in track and field. The speed, along with the fact that the runners aren't in lanes so you get real racing. With the elbows, the traffic, the timing of the individaul moves is just awesome to watch. If you put that race in lanes you loose almost all of that. Along with the fact that as you mentioned the stager would be huge.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

[Dan]

[Distance_Guru]

I'd have to agree. It would be a little like the indoor 400 which is a blast to watch.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

[Conway]

There is a running start in the relay to some degree, but it is more like a joggingn start ... Gives some help but a well executed start from the blocks gives you much more propulsion ...

Any of you ever run a scratch 400 ??? Murder ... Imagine the start of the 1500, but at near full speed ... I've run it a few times and it does not speed up the times ... First 50 is spent fightingn for position ...
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Conway
Speed Thrills

[Dan]

Scratch 400m? Is that a term for not running in lanes? For a non-laned 400m to work, I think the first 100m would need to be run in lanes to avoid mass mayhem, but that wouldn't take away from the excitement at all. Imagine the adrenalin rush coming off that first turn!

For a mediocre runner, the running start of a 4x400m may not be all that fast, but better runners (didn't we just discuss this sort of thing in the 4x100m thread? ) should be coming through at fairly high speed, and I've found running starts are typically 0.75 to a full second faster than a block start (I had originally estimated 0.5 but those practice times for my athletes never equated well to race performances...).

Dan

[Conway]

That's if you have an uninhibited running start ... We're talking about individuals who are typically running in traffice, getting, bumped, swinging wide, etc ... Not the same thing ... You are usually not free running til 40 or 50 meters after you get the baton - unless you are the US vs the rest of the world (and even then the first couple of legs are tight precisely for thta reason) ...

and yes scratch is a term for not running lanes ... The 400 was run that way a long time ago ... And when tracks were all dirt often time trials would be run that way to avoid having to line the track ... On old 330 yd tracks (comon in Jr High Schools here in California at least back in the day) the 400 was run with the start at the 100 start (staggered) ... Created a lot of fast early races and a lot of fading late race !!! ...
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Conway
Speed Thrills

[Dan]

When did they stop running them that way?

Dan

[Conway]

If you are referring to the 400 around 300 meter tracks with the start on the straight, late 70's early 80's ... If you are referring to scratch start 400's in general I would have to think about that ...
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Conway
Speed Thrills

[Dan]

Both.

Dan