Run-Down Forums

[Micah Ward]

Excellent points!!! I don't know why the successes came before the money and dissapeared after the money came along. But it could be that when there was no money personal pride motivated runners. When the money came along then the personal pride is replaced by the motivation to earn the money. And that makes me think that the guys who are effected the most by a certain amount of money are going to be the ones most motivated to win it.

If you and I are in a race that has $100 for 1st place, and I can feed my family for a month on $100 and you can feed yours for only a week on $100, who do you think will be most motivated to win?

I'm not saying the money is the only factor but I do think it is one that can't be discounted. As for the sprinters and hurdlers and throwers...I don't have an answer. What kind of money does a Mo Greene or Gail Devers or Marion Jones make compared to Paul Tergat or El G? That would be interesting to know.

[Conway]

Now you really have me scared !!! Pride being replaced by money .. If that is the case then we will never have any competitive distance runners .. Becasue you have to build to a point of being good/great enough to get the big money .. And if you have no pride to carry you to that point, then how do you get there ??? Then of course perhaps that is the answer to the question if indeed that is the motivation for our distance runners - money ..

As for earnings it is more indicative of status than event .. Whether or not you are a world record holder .. Olympic or World Champion .. Are you a Name draw for events .. Etc .. Which mean again that accomplishments come before money ... Track payouts and road race payouts are totaly different as I understand it .. You build a name/reputation in track and then the money flows ..

As far as your example of who should be the most motivated - the one would can feed his family for a month with $100 or the one who can feed his family for a week with $100, it better be the one who can only feed his family for a week - HE HAS TO WIN MORE RACES TO ACCOMPLISH THE SAME GOALS !!!! :smile:

[ This Message was edited by: Conway on 2002-01-28 19:00 ]

[Dan]

A few posts to catch up on here...

[Micah Ward]

Let's hope we ARE turning the corner with Webb, Ritzenhiem, Tegenkamp, etc. How great would that be to have a generation of world class runners emerging? Granted, they have a long way to go but Roy Benson has an article in this months Running Times predicting that Webb is leading a new generation of US distance excellence. I certainly hope so.

I think the money is more a factor than Dan does and Conway you bring up the real Catch-22 part of the situation. You can't get the money until you achieve and you got to achieve first. Again, let's hope this new generation breaks that cycle. Webb has the potential to be a distance running icon IF he can stay healthy and handle the media hoopla.

Concerning the hypothetical $100...touche' Conway. Hadn't thought about it that way. Of course in distance running you can only compete so often. Especially if you are marathoner.

BTW, the daughter lowered her 5K PR to 19:27 in her first indoor meet of the season. Then promptly contracted mono. She is doing a lot better and we're hoping she can make it back for part of the outdoor season.

Conway, you get any of that snow I saw on the Weather Channel?

[Conway]

Wow, you guys had a lot to say ... .. Let's see ..

Distance Running, adrenaline and hype .. I think within every discipline you have ot learn to manage your energy and emotions .. The major dicotomy in sprinting is combining extreme explosive action with relaxation .. Two things almost diametrically opposed to each other .. I would think that energy management would be easiest in the distances, while being most difficult in the 400 and 800 .. Above 800 one can manage pace and that is something that is trained for ... While in the 400 & 800 while there is a semblence of pace, the athlete is so near the edge in terms of speed and pace within max that management is always on the edge .. So it would seem that hype and adrenalin would be the greatest disadvantage in those two events .. .. I understand the need for calm in distance running .. But in any event if ou don't develop the same you crash and burn ..

[Conway]

Kenyan Competitiveness .. I think they are extremely competitive, but in a diferent way basead upon their culture .. The Kenyans seem to treat races from a team perspective .. Team tactics and team racing .. Which would make it very hard to show killer instinct by any single individual .. Typically what you see with Kenyans is 2 or 3 running together posturing and blocking for one another .. Then at some point you see one emerge from a "pick and role" type of maneuver .. One sacrificing for another and then trying to gain his own position/medal .. With the goal being to try to secure the gold for their country .. So I agree that they lack individual killer instinct, but I think they are among the most competitive out there in the distances ..

Other Countries Competitiveness .. You're right .. Lots of individuals here and there from other nations .. Although I would point to Spain, Britain, and Morocco as countries with consistent "crops" of great distance runners .. However, having said that what else should we expect given the small populations of these countries ?? As I have stated before the US has a populatoin of over 250 million people and we won't begin to discuss the differences in resources (money, coaching, facilities, etc) ... Sor to f like compring the difference between going hunting with spears vis a vis heavy artillery ... ..

The Effect of Money on the Sport ... In one word (in my opinion) detrimental ... I think the sport was far better off before the money entered it .. I think it has created a huge divide between the haves and have nots .. It has decimated competition - both in terms of head to head AND in the number of quality meets that are contested .. It has skewed motivation ... And in many ways it has turned the sport into a circus ... AND it has lead the way in promoting drug use in the sport !!! Did I cover everything ??

Role models .. Definitely missing in the distance arena .. but on the decline throughout the sport .. Who ARE todays role models ??? Can anyone name me any TRUE role models in the sport ?? I have a few ideas but would like to hear yours first ..

Micah .. Cool about your daughters PR .. Sorry she got Mono .. Hope she gets over it soon ... And yes we got snow here .. Not a lot but some .. The kids thought it was great !!!

[Conway]

Note: System wouldn't take my full posot so I had to break it in two ..

[Micah Ward]

Conway, I'm not sure what you meant concerning money and the haves and have nots. If you compare Kenya and the US we got the money and resources but they are kicking our butts!

I can't think of any one in the distance comunity that could really be called a role model right now. Regina Jacobs or Suzy Hamilton could if they could keep from choking on the world stage. The problem is that you got to win to establish your credentials to be that role model. Kennedy needs to do more than just run at the back of the Kenyan pack. Plus you got to have a personality to go with the wins to really be the role model type. I hate to keep going back to Webb but he is the only one I see that has the potential. But again, he's got to have some wins on the world stage.

[Conway]

By money I was referring to "prize" money or money earned in the sport .. Basically what you have is huge money going to the ElG's, Gebresselassie's, Mo Greene's, and Marion Jones' of the sport .. With everyone else left to fight for the scraps .. If you're at the top of the food chain it makes it easy to stay there .. If you are at the bottom of the food chain it makes it difficult to rise to the top ..

I've been waiting for someone to bring up our women as it is there that we have been able to compete on the international level .. Why the women and not the men ?? Is there something that we should be learning there ?? And I don't know am just asking the question .. I agree that Jacobs and Suzy are quasi role models .. Not sure what has happened to Jacobs over the past 2 seasons .. And Suzy is a terrible interview ..

Wating for Dan's Role model list before I give mine ..

[Micah Ward]

It is interesting to see the women compete so much better on the world stage than the men. Is it just because the Kenyan women haven't taken over yet? Talk about a depressing thought. But then again Regina set a world record this weekend in the 2 mile. Granted that isn't an event run very often but it's still a world record.

One other aspect to being a role model I think is that the person has to be willing to accept that responsibility. Along with the excellence in competition they have to be willing to be accessable to the press and the fans. One name that springs to mind is Bill Rodgers. I have never heard anything but glowing words from people that have encountered him. To bad that he isn't back in his late 20's again!

Conway, your children are probably like the ones around here. Snow is such a seldom seen phenomenon that they are totally overwhelmed by it. Thanks for the kind words about my "monodaughter".

[Dan]

I don't think money can be a motivating factor in this sport without producing more casualties than success stories. Money breeds involvement, and greater involvement generally breeds star athletes, but money itself as a motivational tool puts the focus on the wrong things and will probably lead to injury (too much too soon, i.e. greed).

[Conway]

Hmmm .. I agree with most of the last posts ... I do think that you underestimate the need for "pacing" in the long sprints ... The difference between 21.3 and 20.9 in a 400 is disaster ...

As far as money in the sport is concerned, I think money has ruined most sports .. NBA, NFL and MLB included .. The money becomes the primary focus and the sport is left behind .. And I think a big part of the result of that is the lack of role models .. Role models have to do too much that is non money generating .. At least I think that is how many athletes see it .. What they fail to see is that once money enters the sport you then in many ways become the employee of the fan .. Only those that truly understand that become capable role models .. I think Marion understands .. But she had a tough circumstance hit her .. I think Greene understands, just has a hard time fitting into the PR aaspect of the role .. Jacobs I think was there til 2000 and Sydney ... THis country needs a middle distance or distance person in that role - for many reasons ... The sport is at its zenith when we have at least one distance runner of prominence ..

Webb, Ritz, et al are poised to fit that bill I believe ... I just hope the sport is ready to ride that to the next level in this country .. Otherwise we could be sitting on the back of the bus so to speak for several decades more ...

[Dan]

Oh, I definitely don't underestimate the difference of 0.4 seconds in a long sprint. Just that it's still close enough to maintain contact and not totally demoralize the athlete, and some people are strong enough to hold on despite an error in judgement and not lose much at all. I think that's much more difficult to do in a longer event (probably gets increasingly difficult as the distance goes up).

I agree completely with your role model assessment. It looked like Goucher might have been headed that direction for a while, but he's taken a bit of a back seat of late. Let's hope he can get back to where he was.

Dan