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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose so, but my initial and lingering response was one of head shaking...

Dan
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Conway
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL ... I expected that ... And I suspect I am in the minority opinion on this one ... Guess it is the sprinter in me ... As well as football and basketball ...

Sports are really thinly veiled games ... And games are about joy and jubilation as much as they are about the competition ... I find it interesting that track and field is the only sport where we expect the participants to go about their business in a "workmanlike" manner ... Step out on the track ... do your job ... And leave ... That was the worst part of the Seoul games - the constant shoving the athletes off the track the moment anyone would even dare take a victory lap - or show any signs of celebration ...

Part of the fun of watching athletes perform (IMO) is watching the enjoyment in the performance ... Anyone remember Gail Devers jumping into her coaches arms after she heard she had won the 100 in Barcelona ??? How about Debbie Flintoff rocking back and forth on her back when she got the news of her Olympic gold ... Moses and Shine in 84 ???

I think a problem with the sport now is the lack of fun and emotion ... Too busy trying to book bands and set up historic presentations and game pits ... We keep getting farther and farther away from the competition itself !@!
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm all for excitement and celebration, but Mo's situation was obviously planned in advance and came across as very fake and unsportsmanlike. Similarly, I thought Terrell Owens' sharpie-in-the-sock escapade was in extremely poor taste. I honestly think stuff of that sort is more detrimental to sports than drug use.

Dan
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graeme
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad to see Webb doing well. It would be great to see him beat his mile PR and finally start running to his full potential.

Mo's fire extinguisher antics weren't done out of joy or excitement, it was arrogance. That's what I disrespect. I hate it when he struts around, I hate it when he talks smack in interviews, I hate his stupid celebrations and I hated this too. Imagine El G jumped around like an idiot after every race he won. It would be stupid. But that's what most sprinters seem to do. Over the past few years I've noticed at local track meets that a lot of little kids like to raise there arms in the air and celebrate after winning the 100, but never any other race. I really hate to see things like this, and I think they do it because of what they see on TV. There's nothing worse than arrogance.

I agree with Dan that celebrations are fine. It just needs to be kept under control. And I don't think there should be rules against it, but that doesn't make anyone any less of a jerk for doing things like what Mo did.

Just my extremely biased opinion as a distance runner Wink
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Conway
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I keep forgetting that most message boards are dominated by distance runners ... LOL ... Gotta start a spriinter computer purchase program !!!!

I understand how ya'll feel ... but I also understand how a sprinter feels ... And I can tell you it is much less about arrogance than distance runners would like to believe ... Sprinters are the "gunslingers" of the track ... And just like the Wild West gunslingers you have to have a certain mentality to do well in the sprints ...

Perhaps we should start a thread on it ... ;--0
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's funny, having coached sprinters for 5 years now, I'm the one always trying to get them to be nastier and more arrogant and not so damn friendly and sportsmanlike all the time. Go figure.

You need an edge as a competitor, but you also have to know when to draw the line. In my opinion, Maurice has repeatedly displayed a lack of such understanding. Sticking his tongue out at Bailey, the Sydney relay embarassment, the fire extinguisher, etc. Not the most mature of stuff. I don't have a problem with his brash talk, but the other antics have to go.

Dan
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Conway
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, but you coaoch sprinters in OREGON !!! Distance capital of the United States ... These guys have trouble going sub 11.50 !!! They are not sprinters ... They's just the fastest guys in town ... Or actually maybe the slowest distance runners around ...

Mo is actually mild compared to the high level sprinters of the 60's and 70's .... And is not so different that contemporaries like Bailey and Christie ... The area that I grew up in was a hot bed for top level sprinters ... Often taking 9.5/10.4 or therebouts to win a section title ... And I gotta tell ya that trash talking and preening and what not went on all the time ... Hate to say it but I used to wear bells on my shoes during warm ups to throw other guys off ... Make em think about me ... Started doing that as a soph - got the idea from Mel Pender ... Sprinters live much more on "the edge" than other competitors ... Funny but the only other track athletes that remind me of that attitude are shot putters ... Maybe its the fact that both have to explode during their events ...
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Dan
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I said, getting an edge in competition in one thing, showing up the competition after the fact is quite another. I can't think of any examples of previous sprinters who've consistently pulled the post-competition antics Mo has. Trash talking is a completely different thing.

Dan
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Conway
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm ...

Linford Christie and his guns blazing following victories ...

Umpteen sprinters waving that #1 finger in the air as they slow down ...

Donovan Bailey and his slow down stare down ...

Ben Johnson and his "don't even attempt to shake my hand" as I run around the curve and pump my fist ...

John Capel and his over the shoulder look over the last 10 meters and past the tape of a big win ...

Carl Lewis and his run over and grab the flag and congratulate no one else while I mug for the crowd and the camera with the biggest flag I can find ... And in domestic meets, gliding to a stop just past the finish line, putting his hands on his hips and striking a "Superman" pose, then sprinting off around the track on a victory lap ...

Just a few of the more recent ones that come to mind ... I could go old school though if you'd like ...

Mo is no different than tons of other sprinters ... I think the thing about Mo is that HSI has been so much in the spot light that every little thing he does gets publicity (he and his team mates) ... And not trying to defend him as much as the fraturnity of sprinters in general ...
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Dan
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see that any of those examples are in remotely the same category...

Dan
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In high school track you get people trying to psyche each other out in the mid distance races too.... that's why I don't like HS races. That crazy attitude works in the sprints, but I've noticed that most people will run longer distances well if they can run their guts out, but stay under control at the same time. You have to run hard and relax at the same time.

Distance runners also have their own friendly community, which I think contributes to the difference, but often high school runners aren't a part of this, which would explain the stuff that goes on at high school meets (plus the lack of maturity).

In BC sprinting seems like it's dying. 11.5 was good enough to qualify for provincials at the Vancouver Island champs this year (top 3 qualify), and last year at BC's one person got under 11 with 10.99, but there was a big drop off from there. Mid and long distance races have gone the other way. It used to be that a sub 2 800 or a 4 minute 1500 would give you a good chance at medalling, but now a 2 minute 800 is nothing and in a fast race a sub 4 1500 may not be enough for the top 5.

Basically, what's happened is that nobody comes to watch the 100 final anymore, they want to see the 800 and the mile. The lack of attention seems to have toned down their celebrations, as I havn't seen anything at high level competition in BC that's bothered me. Smile
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graeme
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

me
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Conway
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
I don't see that any of those examples are in remotely the same category...

Dan


Why not ??? Because they aren't Mo ... Because they don't involve a tongue ??? Or are we now just arguing the fire extinguisher ??? All but the extinguisher are exactly in the same category ... And the extinguisher was actually an Adidas bit and geared towards marketing ... And it was good ... Like I said, had everyone around the world talking about it ...
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Dan
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why not ??? Because they aren't Mo ... Because they don't involve a tongue ???

Because they didn't directly show up the other athletes after the competition was over.

Was the fire extinguisher bit really adidas' doing? If so, then I'll ease off the criticism of Mo a wee bit and will have officially lost all respect for adidas. Seems like just yesterday I called them the king of gimmicks.

Graeme, that seems to be the trend for Oregon and Washington in recent years, too.

Dan
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Conway
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I see that I am flapping in the wind on this one ...

Of course all those people did those things to show up the competition ... That's what it's all about ... Not sure how Mo got to be the poster boy for showing up the competition other than he has had the opportunity to do it more regularly than anyone else in history ...

and yes from what I've been told it was a premeditated Adidas driven idea ... Based on a saying that Mo used in high school ...

With the propensity of distance runners that become involved in the management of track and field I now understand why we've been muddled in the dark ages these past couple decades ... Sad
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