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Conway · Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2002 5:11 pm Post subject:

Sometimes in track and field a year will leave its mark .. Like 1968 and the other worldly Olympics ... Or the year of Ma and the Chinese distance running sensations .. Well this past weekend I was reviewing some tapes and decided to re-look 1995 .. Originally I did so as I wanted to take a look at Donovan Bailey as that was his coming out year .. But as I looked at Zurich and Brussells and Berlin, as well as the Worlds in Goteborg, it was the distances that kept standing out ..

That was the year that 8:00 was broken in the steeple .. That Gebressellasie destroyed the 5000 meter mark .. A year in which huge strides were made in distance running ..

As I watched I got to listen to various interviews and there were some things that stood out .. During the Zurich meet, for instance, Larry Rawson watched as Gebre destroyed the 5000 mark .. His immediate comment was "distance running has changed dramatically. In order to compete now an athlete must improve his 800 and 400 speed if he hopes to have a chance" .. An interview with Dieter Baumann produced the statement "These guys (referring to the Africans) have no fear. They do not fear pain. To run against them you can not fear pain" ..

1995 was the same year that Bob Kennedy went to Europe to train with the Africans .. When asked why in an interview his comment was "to de-mystify them. to try to do what they do" ...

Finally, an interview with Gelindo Bordin (1992 Olympic marathon champ) prior to the World Championships regarding the marathon and the Africans produced the statement "you can not be afraid to move when they move becasue they will not come back" ...

I bring all of this up because sometimes we have short memories .. In the years since many have learned to justify the superiority of the Africans in distance as genetic freaks of nature .. When asked what he attributed his great distance running ability to (after his great Zurich record) Gebressellasie replied "since I was 10 (he was 22 in 95) I run to school and back (10 miles each way). Every day I run it. Every day I run. I run and I keep getting better. Now I want to get even better." The ultimate in the Nike slogan - he just does it !!! He runs .. Doesn't complain .. Just does it .. Forget all of the formulas .. Magic workouts .. Training philosophies .. Not genetics .. But environment .. No buses to school .. No borrowing dads car to go to the store .. No bike, moped, skate board or other mechanical conveyance .. Running first out of neccessity and then because he loves it .. Add a burning desire to be great (not just to participate) and ... Well you know where I'm headed ..

Micah Ward · Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2002 8:04 pm Post subject:

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!

I provide this corallary from the ultradistance world. Ultrarunners marvel at Ann Trason's dominance of the Western States 100. But the backbone of her training is simplicity itself. Every Saturday she goes to the Western States trail and she runs 30-40 miles. Nothing fancy or complicated. She just gets on the trail and runs.

My guess on where you were going...our distance runners need to simply run. Run fast. Run far. Trash the complicated plans and...Just get out and run!!!!

Dan · Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2002 8:44 pm Post subject:

'95 was also the coming out year for Wilson Kipketer, which is somewhat ironic considering the quotes from Geb regarding running to school. One of my favorite quotes is from Kipketer, something along the lines of, "I lived right next to the school. I walked there nice and slow." Wink

Dan

Conway · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:43 am Post subject:

Ah .. But Kipketer only runs 800 meters !!! Much closer to a sprint race .. And Kenyans have been noted for 400 and 800 running long before their distance "boom" ..

I'm actually surprised that they have NOT developed any true sprinters (100 & 200)which would essentially help them produce a team that could medal from 100 thru marathon and challenge the global powers of track and field ..

Dan · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2002 2:37 pm Post subject:

Conway · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2002 3:50 pm Post subject:

I'll agree with you on the body types issue .. However, KEnya has produced numerous athletes of the 1:43 ilk .. And many sub 45 q-milers .. Kitur just missed medalling at 44.71 in Goteborg in 95 (ust watched the tape this weekend) .. And Ochieng was a semi finalist in 99 .. The 2001 lists had Ezra Sambu @ 44.47 as well as Wilfred Bungei @ 1:42.90, William Yiampoi @ 1:43.00, and Joseph Mutua @1:43.63 .. Not bad for a tiny under developed nation Smile

.. But I agree that their body type is not nearly as conducive to 100 meter sprinting .. I do wonder about 200 meter sprinting however .. Smile

Dan · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 9:30 am Post subject:

Granted, a few Kenyans have done reasonably well in the 400, but we're not talking about athletes that have much chance of medalling in big meets. One person making the semis every few years is hardly a stable enough base to build champions off of. How would those Kenyan 400 runners have ranked on the US lists those years?

As for the 800, "not deep" was probably the wrong choice of words in my last post. What I meant was lots of above average guys, but few great ones. Aside from Kipketer (who did nothing that I'm aware of while considering himself Kenyan) and the top young guy of two years ago who's name I forget, it's mostly Europeans at the front of the pack when it counts. Bucher, Borzo, Schumann, the South Africans, etc. Once you get to the 1500 and up, it's only the elite North/East African competitors that exceed the top Kenyans.

Dan

Conway · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 12:23 pm Post subject:

Hmmm ... I'll have ot agree with you on the 400 .. As the only real threat in the past couple of decades was Samson Kitur Who was bronze in 92 & 93 and just missed at 4th in 95 ..In the 800 however I have to disagree .. Here is the competitive record of the Kenyans in the "Big Ones" (Oly & Worlds) since the 83 Worlds were introduced:

87 - 1st, Konchella
88 - 1st, Ereng; 8th Kiprotich
91 - 1st Konchella; 4th Ereng
92 - 1st, Tanui; 2nd Kiprotich
93 - 1st, Ruta; 3rd Konchella
95 - 1st Kipketer
96 - 3rd Onyancha; 6th Kiptoo
97 - 1st Kipketer; 4th Konchella
99 - 1st Kipketer; 5th Kimutai
00 - nothing
01 - 2nd Bungei; 4th Yiampoy

Now I listed Kipketer as Kenyan cause he is (by birth) and the Konchellas are different ones (popular name).. Now if you look at that list, the KEnyans have a better record in the 800 than anyone does in any event on the track .. Heck their record is better than the Untied States in the 100 during the same time span !!! So you might have ot say that the Kenyans dominate the 800 Smile

Dan · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 12:29 pm Post subject:

Ok, I will grudgingly agree with you on the 800... Smile

While my point may be a bit weak, it is still somwhat reflected by those stats, though. Taking out Kipketer (as I said, I'm not aware of him having done much of anything while competing for Kenya, and the 800 seems to be an event where the Europeans have done better than would be expected relative to the Kenyans), the #2 performances for those years would be:

87 - ...
88 - 8th Kiprotich
91 - 4th Ereng
92 - 2nd Kiprotich
93 - 3rd Konchella
95 - ...
96 - 6th Kiptoo
97 - 4th Konchella
99 - 5th Kimutai
00 - ...
01 - 4th Yiampoy

While that may be an unusual way to argue a point, it does show that the #2 and higher Kenyans in those years were basically middle of the pack finalists, putting them in the same category as many of the competitors for other countries. That's not a bad thing, it just isn't the blanket finishes you would expect from the Kenyans in the steeple and other distance events.

Dan

Conway · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 12:44 pm Post subject:

Nice argument except for one thing .. You are basically comparing Kenya's number 2's with everyone elses number ones !!! No one else can get more than one in the final !!! Kenya is gettign 2 in the final, winning, and placing high with their number 2 man !!! Now is it as goodo as they do in the steeple ??? Absolutely not .. But then who/what is ?!?!?!?

Dan · Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2002 9:31 pm Post subject:

Conway · Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 8:33 am Post subject:

I'll buy that .. Althogh I think based on past history that they could do well at 400 with a little more focus .. I think that the issue there is probably training/coaching as sprinting becomes more technical .. And that is an issue with the KEnyans/Africans that doesn't seem to get discussed much .. Smile

Dan · Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 8:50 am Post subject:

What about the Nigerians? Lee Evans commented after Mexico City in '68 that the untapped potential of the Nigerian sprinters was amazing. It apparently did not take much advanced coaching to help unleash it, although a number of Nigerians have benefitted from US schooling. I would think Kenya has access to that same level of rudimentary sprint training, no?

Dan

Conway · Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 11:40 am Post subject:

I believe the majority of Nigerian sprinters have been schooled in the US ... I can't think of any that have trained in their own country .. Those that haven't trained in the US I think have done so in Europe ..

I suppose the Kenyans could do the same .. I know that their 400 sprinters used ot come to the US - Julius Sang and Charles Asati come to mind .. I would imagine that it lies in the fact aht they are having success elsewhere so why bother ..

Dan · Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 12:02 pm Post subject:

I certainly cannot think of any Nigerian distance runners, so we're back to not knowing if it's purely genetic or simply playing the odds based on previous cultural successes...

Dan

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