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graeme
Varsity
Joined: 04 Aug 2001
Posts: 451
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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 Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Damn, I really need to start checking that auto login box  |
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Distance_Guru
World Class
Joined: 09 Mar 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| wrote: | | Running is also a natural human function, yet you have made an occupation of teaching people how to do it better and more efficiently. Talk about contradictions. |
Yes, and breathing is part of that. And the way I teach it, is to relax and breathe. If I see someone taking shallow rapid breaths I'll tell them to relax and just breathe normally. However usually that type of breathing is a function of being out of shape and goes away after a couple of weeks of steady training. I've only had to work with one athlete (while coaching at the high school level) and I only had to mention something twice before she was running with no problems what so ever. More than anything what she needed to do was relax. Inefficent breathing is almost always a product of tension in the upper body. If you can relax in the hands, arms, shoulders and torso, your usually going to be breathing alright.
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If I see someone taking shallow rapid breaths I'll tell them to relax and just breathe normally. |
But for some people that is their normal way of breathing. Also, some people have smaller wind pipes or constricted bronchial tubes, so they need to place special emphasize on not short changing each breath.
If efficient breathing comes naturally, then great, don't worry about it. However, taking people who are good runners that do not have breathing issues and thinking you can work backward from that point to prove that no one should have to worry about their breathing is just plain silly. Those people are good runners precisely because they do not need to worry about such basic things! That tells us nothing about the other group, which brings me back to my frame of reference comment...
Dan |
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Micah Ward
Olympic Medalist
Joined: 08 May 2000
Posts: 2152
Location: Hot&humid, GA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2002 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Good job on the PFT Jafar 
Do you remember your splits on the run? Are you running even, negatives...?
BTW, I fall in with the group that says just breath the way your body feels like breathing and don't worry about it or try to force it to do something that doesn't feel right.
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2002 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | don't ... force it to do something that doesn't feel right. |
That's still not quite it... It's not a matter of doing something that doesn't feel right, rather consciously stepping outside of lazy or ingrained habits to do something more efficient that will become easily "right" feeling once accustomed to it.
Dan |
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RangerG
Junior Varsity
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 132
Location: Chester County, PA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2002 3:09 pm Post subject: Two schools of thought.... |
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Ok,
As I see it here, there are two schools of thought on this issue.
The reasion I breathe the way I do, is because it was a natural progression from the Army cadence that I started with. Calling cadence was not just to sound good, it was to build lung capacity. This did help a lot in getting me started again, but as I moved from military shuffle to running, my breathing changed slightly, but it still wants to keep time to my footfalls. 
Now as Dan puts it, I may have fallen into a bad habit, but with the lack of a coach to try and teach this old dog a new trick...it seems to work for now. 
I guess this issue will be like butting heads over politics and religion...
Ranger (hiding in my foxhole) G. 
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If I could only run like John Capel... |
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Jafar
Water Boy
Joined: 22 Aug 2002
Posts: 38
Location: SLC, UT
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Micah Ward wrote: | | Do you remember your splits on the run? Are you running even, negatives...? |
Unfortunately I ran a positive split. I probably started out to hard, I was a bit nervous. But again I noticed my usualy crap of starting hard and finishing hard and getting lazy in the middle.
Its been so damn cold lately I've been back on the treadmil. But I am starting to see some benefit to it as far as maintaining pace. The breathing thing has been worked out. It does seem more effective to just breath deeply and not concentrate on it. |
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RangerG
Junior Varsity
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 132
Location: Chester County, PA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2002 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Jafar,
I make the same mistake when I run 5k's, rocket off the line, spend 3/4 of the run getting my breath back, and then finishing strong. It is hard for me to resist the urge to sprint at the beginning. On those rare occasions where I control myself and run at my normal pace, I do great and have a lot more fun.
I have worked out a training plan for you. I will fly up and run ahead of you yelling "No Neck Jar Head", and you can try and catch me
Of course when you DO catch me, all that Ranger training will be out the window  (along with my teeth)
Hey, I ment what I said about the phone calls and email...if ya need a friend, I'm here I may joke a lot, but I am loyal to my friends.
Ranger (I tolerate Marines) G.
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training2run
Varsity
Joined: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 253
Location: CyberSpace
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| Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2002 10:57 am Post subject: The Ranger is full of.... |
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fun!!!! Ranger, my friend, you are just too funny  Your buddy Mad Dog Mikie, www.training2run.com |
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RangerG
Junior Varsity
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 132
Location: Chester County, PA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2002 11:15 am Post subject: And Mad Dog is full of.... |
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....I'm not sure, but I bet it is on the Superfund list 
Disclaimer: The staff and management of Ranger G. entertainment guarantees that at least every THIRD joke will be funny.
Now you show up Mike...where have you been?? I was ready to scamble an extrication team to come get ya I even sent ya an "are ya OK?" email!!  I guess that string and can network down there lost it
Your friend,
Ranger (I even run with Marines) G.
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Distance_Guru
World Class
Joined: 09 Mar 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2002 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| wrote: | | Disclaimer: The staff and management of Ranger G. entertainment guarantees that at least every THIRD joke will be funny. |
Nice, unfortunatly with any jokes that I post I suggest you laugh right away because they probably aren't going to get any funnier.
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Time is the fire in which we burn |
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Here's another point I was just reminded of on my run: Unless you regularly experience side aches while running, you really don't have a right to comment on whether or not focusing on breathing is necessary for some people... Emphasizing the breathing is often the only way to get rid of them, other than stopping and walking.
Dan |
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Distance_Guru
World Class
Joined: 09 Mar 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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I'd have to disagree there, that's like saying if you don't get sick on a regular basis you can't be a doctor. And generally every runner I know gets them. There something that's pretty universal. Even the very fast have them, they are generally just running faster or farther when they get them.
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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That doesn't tell us anything... If, as you say, everyone gets them, then what is your advice? Just put up with it??? That wouldn't be very good advice, seeing as how they can usually be addressed through breathing techniques. Unless you care to discount that notion, you can't really say paying attention to breathing is not important.
Dan |
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Distance_Guru
World Class
Joined: 09 Mar 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'm still advocating that you run relaxed. Most cramps in the upper body are a result of either dehydration or being to tight. If you just relax your breathing almost always improves, along with your running form. And maybe I missed something but this thread was about breathing technique not side aches. Not that that would really change my advice much. Only I'd recommend that you also stretch the sides and abdominals well after you warm up but before you start your run.
P.S. My last few posts on this thread have been more about defending my right and quailifications to give advice on this subject. I willingly admit it when I am less than an expert on a subject. If you disagree with what I say fine, but please refrain from trying to discredit my ability to give compotent advice on this subject or any other running related subject.
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