Run-Down Forums Forum Index Run-Down Forums

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch
 
Run-Down Forums Forum Index
Sprint Central
Revised men's all-time 100m career averages
Post new topic   Reply to topic

Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Run-Down Forums Forum Index -> Sprint Central
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Justin
Varsity
Varsity


Joined: 08 Oct 2001
Posts: 312
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:34 am    Post subject: Revised men's all-time 100m career averages Reply with quote

Dan has kindly posted my revised all-time men's 100m top ten career averages list on Run-Down.

This includes all 2002 performances and a substantial number of updated averages and additions through ever deeper digging into my files and books.

Included are auto-timed, wind-legal performances only. Disqualified performances (eg Johnson's 9.79) are excluded, as are any suspect performances (rolling starts, dodgy wind readings, suspect timing). Clearly the limitation to auto times hampers many athletes from the 60s and 70s - for some (eg Charlie Greene) it's not possible to find ten auto times at all while for others (eg Jim Hines, Steve Williams, Valeriy Borzov) this list doesn't do them justice. There is no other way though, hand times are too blunt a tool and too variable for this sort of list.

The 'Diff' column is the difference between fastest and 10th fastest times; the lower this is, the more consistent an athlete has been through their career.

Athletes marked by * have improved their average from last year. Athletes marked + are additions, some through 2002 performances (eg Uchenna Emedolu) while others are either glaring omissions (eg Curtis Johnson) or a result of digging ever deeper to find that elusive 10th time.

My files and lists have a gap from 1988-1996 where I have only sub-10.20 times. For all other years my lists go to 10.40 or even deeper. Thus, a few athletes from the late 80s/early 90s (eg Joe DeLoach, Sam Jefferson) are missing through my lack of data. Anyone with deep performance lists for those years - please get in touch, I need you! I am confident that my lists cover all other years adequately, although there are certain to be errors and omissions - there are around 1200 performances in total in the list and as such mistakes are inevitable, my being human an' all.

Some commentary:

* Mo Greene remains the top man, with a career average of 9.851. He also has the fastest 2nd-best, 3rd-best, 4th-best, 5th-best, 6th-best, 7th best, 8th best and 9th best performances. Absolutely amazing.

* Tim Montgomery has improved his average to under 9.90 and moved ahead of Fredericks and Bailey to 3rd spot.

* Jon Drummond's 9.97 this year means he now has all ten times under 10.00. His differential of 0.07 is among the best, just behind Boldon's 0.04 and Obikwelu's 0.05.

* Chambers and Obikwelu took their averages under 10 in 2002; Bernard Williams is 0.002 away from joining them.

* Other substantial improvements in 2002 came from Kim Collins, Mark Lewis-Francis and Coby Miller.

* Notable additions are Uchenna Emedolu (through 2002 performances) and Curtis Johnson (missed by me in compiling the last list). There are lots of new additions in the lower part of the list, including Darvis Patton, Justin Gatlin, Leonard Scott and Darrel Brown (10 times from 10.09-10.25 before his 18th b-day!).

* Two notables are Shawn Crawford and JJ Johnson, both sub-10 men in the lower part of the list due to poor depth of marks. If JJ gets it together he could make a big leap next year.

Enjoy!

Justin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dan
Chief Pontificator
Chief Pontificator


Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome work, as always by Justin! Smile You can get to the new lists through the Statistics or Guest Articles links. Just also sent me the updated Junior lists, which will require a bit of page layout work before I can get them posted.

dan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Distance_Guru
World Class
World Class


Joined: 09 Mar 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Nebraska

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't Carl Lewis have a top 10 best times average of under ten as well? Or are you just talking athletes that are still active.
_________________
Time is the fire in which we burn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Conway
Olympic Medalist
Olympic Medalist


Joined: 25 Aug 2001
Posts: 3570
Location: Northen California

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carl is =#6 on the list ... Interestingly enough with Leroy Burrell ... The list has 17 individuals with averages under 10.00 ... So Carl is just ahead of the middle of the group ...

Conway
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dan
Chief Pontificator
Chief Pontificator


Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Mo Greene remains the top man, with a career average of 9.851. He also has the fastest 2nd-best, 3rd-best, 4th-best, 5th-best, 6th-best, 7th best, 8th best and 9th best performances. Absolutely amazing.

Let's not short change Mo on the credit he deserves. Smile He also is tied for the fastest 10th-best time and has the 2nd best #1 time. That's pretty clear domination of the lists!

Dan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Justin
Varsity
Varsity


Joined: 08 Oct 2001
Posts: 312
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My comments above were all related to changes since the list last year. There is much else to comment on, not least the nice fact that Carl Lewis and Leroy Burrell have the same top 10 average to 1/1000th, and of course always will! I like the fact that Mitchell and Christie are so close too - their careers did run parallel.

The consistency of HSI athletes is also interesting - Greene, Boldon and Drummond have 1st-10th differentials of 0.11, 0.04 and 0.07 respectively, which given the level they are operating at is very impressive. Bernard Williams is also in that range - 0.11.

Biggest surprise? Perhaps Brian Lewis - 22nd, 10.021 ave, 0.05 differential?

Justin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Conway
Olympic Medalist
Olympic Medalist


Joined: 25 Aug 2001
Posts: 3570
Location: Northen California

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HSI athletes are remarkable in that their technique varies so little ... Styles are all similar with minor individuals tweaks, but once you've seen them run, you've seen them run ... As in they will duplicate that time in time out !!! Hence I believe their time consistency ...

Interesting that Lewis and Burrell are identical on the clock ... Especially since Burrell won nothing ... He hit all of his marks when it didn't matter .. Carl hit his when it did ... Simple as that ...


Same for Christie and Mitchell ... Christie found a way to step up ... Mitchell remained a runner up ... I think both cases show the importance of mental attitude in sprinting ... It is not just about speed ...

Conway
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Justin
Varsity
Varsity


Joined: 08 Oct 2001
Posts: 312
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burrell is unique in another way...he's the only man to run an auto WR and lose.

Remember, in 1991 he went to the WC having run a 9.90 WR to beat Lewis (9.93) at the US Champs. He then ran 9.88 in Tokyo, which would have broken his own WR and been the first ever sub 9.90 had Lewis not finished 2/100ths earlier. I don't think he ever recovered from that. Come 92 in Barcelona he was no match for Christie and Fredericks, both less talented but stronger in the head. He ran 9.97 into a -1.3 wind in the semi but was nowhere come the final.

The 9.85 WR came in Lausanne in 94 and was somewhat out of the blue. He didn't break 10 again, as Conway has pointed out, and hadn't done so the year before either.

Prior to Tokyo Burrell won everywhere; afterwards he was never really a contender except for that 9.85.

Justin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Conway
Olympic Medalist
Olympic Medalist


Joined: 25 Aug 2001
Posts: 3570
Location: Northen California

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Burrell had one of the most interesting of careers ... Tokyo definitely broke his spirit ... When he ran 9.94w to win the NCAA in '90 he suddenly found his confidence ... From that point forward he could compete with Lewis ... Burrell had ranked #5 in the world in 89 but moved up to #1 in 90 - running extremely well that summer ... He continued in 91 winning Naitonals and setting that 9.90 WR and heading into Tokyo as The Man ... His summer went fine and it was clearly going ot be he and Carl going at it for the Gold ..

They were like to gun fighters in the rounds ... Carl running faster in the quarterfinal and Burrell running only 10.11 but having the only legal time of the heats ... in the semis they traded wins - 9.93 for Carl followed but an emphatic 9.94 for Leroy ... Then the final and Carl's improbable race !!! Leroy couldn't run under 10 nor buy a win in a race ... He made the 92 Olympic squad but barely as he and Carl were almost racing for the final spot (Carl actually slid to 5th) on the team ... Running an outstanding semi (9.97) and looking like a threat for gold he finished in 5th position ... He finished ranked 6th in 92 ... Fought his way up to 3rd in 93 Despite failing ot make the US squad for Stuttgart ... Then slid to 4th in ia dry 94 and then disappeared from the top 10 ...

Not the kind of career/results from a 2 time record setter and technically 3 time record breaker !!!!

But such has been the fortunes of those who have held the 100 record under 9.90 !!!! All but one have been snake bit !!!

Conway
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Justin
Varsity
Varsity


Joined: 08 Oct 2001
Posts: 312
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of the sub-9.90 group only Lewis and Burrell were 'snake bit'. Neither broke 10 again.

Of the others, Montgomery has been under 9.90 in successive seasons; Greene has every year since 97; Boldon was under 9.90 97-99 and 01; Surin broke 9.90 in successive seasons; Christie and Bailey both reached 9.91 the next year; Thompson's 9.87 was at altitude; Chambers hasn't had a chance to repeat yet; Ben Johnson improved to 9.79.

Sorry Conway, the theory doesn't stand up. It's true of both Lewis and Burrell that their sub 9.90s were last hurrahs. But even in Burrell's case the 9.85 came 3 years after he first broke 9.90. The only man to have run 9.90 then fallen away completely is Carl Lewis, who was already 30 when he first did it.

It does seem that maintaining that level of performance for more than a couple of seasons is difficult - that shouldn't surprise us, and is yet another reason to marvel at Greene. However, the same is true of athletes who run 10.05 for a couple of seasons then drop back to 10.15 or slower.

Justin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Conway
Olympic Medalist
Olympic Medalist


Joined: 25 Aug 2001
Posts: 3570
Location: Northen California

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, but my snake bit coment was referencing only those who have held the record under 9.90 !!! I agreed a few posts back that my "theory" needed further negative data to begin to hold any form .. Neutral ... And did not refer to going sub 10 but rather the misfortunes that have befallen them since setting the mark ... Lewis could no longer break 10 ... Burrell did it once but could no longer win anything of note ... And Bailey went into injury mode, though he did put together a thrilling series in Athens ...

During the auto timed era of sprinting WR holders have not done well in championship situations in eihter of the three sprints ..

At 400 Butch was never able to win getting upset in Seoul by Steve Lewis shortly after setting the record and of course just never puting teogether a major win (suspension not with standing) ...

At 200 Mennea squeaked out an 80 Olyimpics win, but did so sans half the world .. All other attempts went for naught ... MJ came back withth e Games win following his Trials WR, but again was snake bit in the years following ...

At 100 Hines left the sport ... Smith, while winning 2 titles over 200 at the worlds, never gained gold over 100 .. Ben won 2 majors but was subsequently busted ... Lewis won 91 gold, but that was quasi as he was given the record after it was taken from Ben - he hadn't actually crossed the line first ... After setting the record on his own in 91 however he had trouble making US Olympic teams and while he made the 93 Worlds team was soundly beaten ... Burrell of coure was chronicled above ... Bailey could not follow up with a win ... And we have yet to see what Tim will do ... Mo is the only one to come back strong with 3 World golds and an Olympic gold !!!

I guess I just instinctively feel/see something happening to individuals when they reach that level ... Almost Twilight Zone-ish LOL ... Or maybe I am reading too much into it ...

Conway
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Justin
Varsity
Varsity


Joined: 08 Oct 2001
Posts: 312
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2002 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greene and Lewis are the only sprinters to have dominated for any length of time. The lack of longevity before the 80s is simple economics - it didn't pay. Oh for James Sanford and Mel Lattany to have continued running through the 80s...

Hines tried to follow Hayes footsteps - who wouldn't? - and Smith and Evans likewise didn't continue past their early 20s. The Lewis/Smith generation were the first to run beyond mid-20s. Now we see most sprinters actually reaching their peak past the age when their predecessors had already left the sport.

I see another pattern in the sub-9.90 brigade. HSI have leaned to maintain that level; SMTC never did. The consistency of Greene, Boldon and Drummond is incredible. Lewis and Burrell never managed that. SMTC also 'lost' Joe DeLoach, possibly the most talented of the lot. Yet when we see an athlete move into and then out of HSI (Bernard Williams) his performances rise and then drop.

Justin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dan
Chief Pontificator
Chief Pontificator


Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2002 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you figure the average age at the top is, maybe 2-3 years (a la Christie, Burrell, or Bailey)?

Dan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Conway
Olympic Medalist
Olympic Medalist


Joined: 25 Aug 2001
Posts: 3570
Location: Northen California

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2002 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 years seems like a long run in the 100 ... Even for runner ups or also rans ... Just staying near the top seems hard ... For Boldon, Fredericks, Drummond to have been at the top as long as they have (not number 1 but always right there) is just as tough as Christie or Bailey to be number one as long ...

Conway
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Justin
Varsity
Varsity


Joined: 08 Oct 2001
Posts: 312
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2002 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I agree. 3 years seems about right. Bailey was at the top 95-96-97; Christie 92-93-94; Burrell 89-90-91; Boldon ran his best times 97-98-99. Greene was at that top level for 97-98-99-00-01, 5 years.

However, Lewis won WCs 8 years apart, 83 and 91. He won 3 WCs and 2 OG in 9 seasons; Mo hasn't matched that, although arguably he has consistently operated at a higher performance level than Lewis did, with WC every 2 years instead of every 4. I think Mo needs to retain his OG title in 2004 before he can quite claim a superior record to Lewis's, although Lewis wasn't as dominant on the clock as Mo.

Justin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Run-Down Forums Forum Index -> Sprint Central All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group