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Paul
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2002 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I'll start a 2002 XC thread in the Distance Forum. That way, we won't be chunking up DG's personal thread here. I went to the meet yesterday at Pier Park. Willamette was there, as was Univ of Portland, Oregon, Portland State. It was kind of a tune up meet. Noah ran, also!!
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2002 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sit down and relax, I did it for you. Smile

I didn't even think to mention to you that Willamette would be up in your neck of the woods... Here are results from the meet Paul is referring to:

http://run-down.com/bearcats/results/xc_pier_02.php

That was the season opener for Willamette. Mostly B-team competition, and Matt sat out 3 of his top 4. Early prediction is only 2 or 3 runners (all from Puget Sound) in the entire conference have a good chance to break up that top 6-7, and that's only if they break their recent trend and stay healthy...

I noticed Noah, aka "Waldo", was the only unattached runner in the race...

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2002 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank You, Dan!! Very Happy
I figure I need to sharpen (or would that be develop Surprised Confused ) my XC skills before the huge Oct 5 meet!!

I actually saw the meet in the Eugene Reg Guard from a link at Jogger's Digest Online. I ran upstairs and said to my wife "Whoa, I've only got an hour to dress down (couldn't possibly go in street clothes!! Cool ) and get to a meet at Pier Park!! See you later".

I tried to keep some of those times in my head and they were pretty close. I had the women's winner in 18:30 and the men's winner in 24:30 with Noah at 26:30. In case DG wants to make some time comparisons, the course was 5K for the women and about 7.5 or 7.6K for the men. One of the coaches before the meet said it was 7.5K, Noah told me he heard it was 7.6K. Sounds like they need a measuring wheel guy. Gosh, I wonder where one of those could be found?? Surprised

Noah's time is very comparable pace wise to what he ran in the LHS alumni run.

I have never been to Pier Park before. It is clear on the other side of the city from where I live. I'm assuming you've been there, Dan. The course is mostly pea gravel and has some major grade changes through it. Actually it seems like a great place to run and train, and I'll be curious what it will be like when the rainy season hits.

Willamette's men's team looks like it will be far superior to the women's team. That seems to correlate with what you described in your post, Dan.

Paul
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2002 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been to Pier Park a couple of times. I think I've only raced there once; tough course. It's officially called a 7600m, but I think the times are pretty comparable to a regular 8k due to the difficulty.

I've never been there on a wet day, but I imagine some of those slopes could get nice and slick. Smile

The WU men's team is definitely stronger than the women's. In last week's 2nd pre-season poll, the men moved up closer to the #3 spot and the women moved up two spots to #17, which I think might be a bit high considering the #1 girl is taking the year off and the one who should be top dog is still off form.

The guy that ran #1 for Willamette yesterday is going to be one to watch, even though his goal for this fall is to make the top 7. He's a freshman from Idaho who won state track titles in the 800, mile, 2 mile, and I believe the 4x400 last year. I don't recall his mile/2-mile times (I believe they were solid, not spectacular, but hey, that's a lot of racing over two days), but he ran 1:53 in the 800m with 58/55 splits and anchored the relay in 48.8. Dem's some impressive specs...

Dan
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2002 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Noah's time is very comparable pace wise to what he ran in the LHS alumni run.

Which would lend credence to my belief that course was longer than 5k, as a tougher course over a greater distance would tend to cut into the pace a bit. More competition at Pier Park probably helped some, but Noah's more of a front runner, anyway. Smile

Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like it was an awsome meet. Even after racing and coaching with and against some of the best, I still get wound up when ever I see U of O or any other of the big D1 teams even when it's just their B guys. But especially U of O. The first time I saw them race was at Pre-Nats in 98 (the year they ran D1 and D2 nationals and pre nats together) and I just remeber thinking "gosh those are ugly uniforms, what I wouldn't give to run in one."
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I still get wound up when ever I see U of O or any other of the big D1 teams even when it's just their B guys. But especially U of O.

Which is exactly why Matt sat out #1, 2, and 4 (potentially 1 through 3; also the only upperclassmen on the squad, and they're only juniors). Didn't want them getting too excited about running against the big schools that botched the recruiting of them and over-doing it in a race that doesn't carry much importance to the season plan.

DG's neigbors, Nebraska Wesleyan (as my friend who went to "the original" Wesleyan in MA would say, "one of the other ones"), are being picked as the top DIII squad in the country. You'll have to either start feeding us some insider info or poisoning their water supply...

Quote:
I just remeber thinking "gosh those are ugly uniforms, what I wouldn't give to run in one."

That's a common sentiment. Smile

Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NWU is up to #1 now, impressive. As far as insider info, the best I can tell you is that they're a recruiting machine, they have mainly kids for the state, they have a lot of guys with long hair, and they're fast. We run against them next week so I should have more info then.


wrote:
Which is exactly why Matt sat out #1, 2, and 4 (potentially 1 through 3; also the only upperclassmen on the squad, and they're only juniors). Didn't want them getting too excited about running against the big schools that botched the recruiting of them and over-doing it in a race that doesn't carry much importance to the season plan.


That's a smart move, and something I plan on doing when get my program to the level where we can really get the athletes to start looking big picture without feeling like their over matched (on the men's side that should be two years down the road or so). In the mean time (to reference a few posts I put up a while back) I'm just watching my spot's race and enjoying themselves.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's definitely a fine line between the athletes believing they can compete and knowing they're good enough to not have to. It will probably just click when your group has reached that stage, but I don't think it makes the coach's job any easier, just different. Smile

Going back to the 3 juniors that sat out the race, here's a bit of background color to pass the quiet morning hours... In their current 1-3 order:

Jake - Got ill at conference XC as a frosh and looked horrible, but rebounded well at regionals and qualified individually for nationals but didn't run too well there (144th). Had a good frosh track season and came back strong for sophomore XC. Got beat out at conference by two rival seniors on their "A" game and was again 3rd at regionals. Then went on to take 5th at nationals (top returner this year) and tear it up in the spring with 1:56.09, 3:59.5h, 9:05.46 steeple, and 14:35.8h. Probably would have taken 2nd in the steeple but got bad food poisoning at nationals and barely finished... Despite those credentials, yet to win a conference title.

Aaron - Conference XC champ as a frosh, also made nationals as a individual and placed 81st. Placed 27th last fall as a sophomore to also take All-American honors. Nothing as dramatic as Jake's bio, but a very tough and consistent competitor. Could well be top-10 material this year. Scored a 1510 SAT and is from the same high school as Prefontaine. Likes to joke that he wasn't able to break those school records...

Nathan - Just as talented as the other two, but has had difficulty stringing together much injury-free time. Placed 5th at conference as a freshman when Jake wobbled in ill; narrowly missed making nationals as an individual. Placed 128th last year as a sophomore, but I believe he lost something like 40 spots in the last half mile. Won the conference 10k title last spring.

The thing I'm most interest to see is if the guys who will be making their 2nd trip to nationals this year (that's a near forgone conculsion with the region having 3 qualifying spots this year) improve from their first time as much as Jake and Aaron did their second time. If so, that could be a heck of a battle for the team trophy!

Well, now Paul should have a better idea who he's watching on the 5th. Smile

Dan
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2002 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa. Still didn't run everyone, but take a look at these results:

http://run-down.com/bearcats/results/xc_uw_sundodger_09_21_02.php

With Nathan healthy and last year's #2 or 3 freshman back to form after a summer of injuries, that could be quite the top 7!

Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2002 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outside of D1 when you've got a top five all at 25:21 or faster, you are good, real good. Surprised
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed. Conditions were good yesterday (I wasn't at the meet), but I don't believe the course is known as being overly fast. You can compare the Open times to the Invite times and see tha there wasn't a big difference...

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/wash/sports/m-xc/auto_pdf/invitem.pdf

It appears it will stay dry here the next few weeks, so the home meet on Oct. 5th could be a 5 mile time trial. Smile

How'd your meet go this weekend?

Dan
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Equally impressive, if they had run in the DI/Invite race, they would have finished 4th for team scoring. Without figuring displacement for the other teams, here is where they would have finished simply by time:

1 Washington 46 = 6 7 10 11 12 16 18
2 Texas A&M 61 = 4 5 13 14 25 27 31
3 South Dakota State 84 = 3 9 15 22 35 38 40
* Willamette 107 = 10 11 20 32 34
4 Pacific Sport-Canada 115 = 8 19 21 33 34
5 Idaho 124 = 2 17 24 36 45 50 52
6 Boise State 141 = 20 23 29 30 39 42 43
7 Club Northwest 154 = 1 28 32 37 56
8 Eastern Washington 213 = 26 44 46 48 49 51 54
9 Cal State-Northridge 253 = 41 47 53 55 57 58

Washington was ranked 27th in last week's DI pre-season poll. Not too shabby.

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2002 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Appears Washington's team was very well packed.
I am trying to make the transition to meters for XC. It seems a time of 3:06 to 3:07 per kilometer equates to a 5 minute mile, so everyone up to the 23rd place averaged under 5 minute miles.
By the way, from the workout Coachd outlined, DG would have been very well placed in this meet in his prime. Thumbs Up

Paul
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2002 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for those results Dan, South Dakota State, yet another tough team in my region Sad
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