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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2002 11:52 am    Post subject: 3k training Reply with quote

I am planning to move up from 800/1500 to 3000m next year. Therefore I hope that somebody
can give me a suggestion for a training program for 3000m
I have trained running for 4 years now and my pb 400 is 53.00 and 800m 1.58. (last year)

Progression: 2001 1.58
2000 2.06
1999 2.13

I havent yet ran any 3000m but i think i can manage to run it on maybe 9.20-30. Difficult to say exactly but I consider myself as an
800/1500m runner rather than 400/800. I am 19 years old and I have increased my training from 3 sessions pr week in 1999 and 2000
to 7 pr week in 2001. A typical winter week (basetraining) for my 800m training (2001) was like this:

Milage: 55-65 pr week

Mon: 3*10 min anerobic treshold run. rest 1 min
Tue : 12*200m hill running. jog back rec
Wed: 40 min easy
Tur: 5*5 AT+ session a bit harder than monday. 1 min rec
Fri: 12*60m full out speed. long rec
Sat:6*800m 1,5 min rec. Vo2 max session
Sun:1 hour long easy run

I followed a hard-hard-easy periodization, so i did 2 weeks like this followed by an easy week with less milage and intensity.
Next year I am going to the army so, I cant do any track training, but I can use a treadmill an a strength room, and running on a hard road
in the winter. I fit me best to train 7 session pr week, and maybe also 2 sessions on saturday and sunday. So between 7-9 sessions would be fine.
It will also be diffulcult to train pure speed. I also have a heart rate monitor I can use. I want to run a 8.50-9.00 3000m next year.

So, now I hope I have given you enough background information, and I hope you can give me a training program for 3000m
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2002 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Progression: 2001 1.58
2000 2.06
1999 2.13

Let me get this straight, you've improved 7-8 seconds each of the past 2 years after only 4 years of running and you're going to switch to a new event??? Another year like that and your time could put you in the thick of a tactical race at the US National Championships...

Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2002 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the training that you've been doing. Here is how I would change it for the 3000.

Monday and Tuesday can stay pretty much the same. You might want to tack 30mins of aerobic running on to the hills.

Wednesday: I would increase this run to 55 or 60 minutes.

Friday: 40 minute aerobic run with 5x200 at a fast pace and full recovery.

Sunday: Increase the duration of your long run to 90minutes.

Every other week: Run an Aerobic Capacity (VO2 max) workout instead of a Anerobic threshold (LT) workout. If your other VO2 max workout is 800's then this one should be 1200's of even 1600's with 1:1 to 1:1 1/2 rest.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2002 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice Distance Guru. I have some questions to your reply:

Is it neccesary to have peroidiazation with this training programme? Maybe the 3 week a bit different or easier?


Quote: Every other week: Run an Aerobic Capacity (VO2 max) workout instead of a Anerobic threshold (LT) workout.
If your other VO2 max workout is 800's then this one should be 1200's of even 1600's with 1:1 to 1:1 1/2 rest.

Do you mean instead of the session on monday or thursday?
And what do you mean with 1:1 to 1:1 1/2 rest. ? And how many 1200 or 1600 should I take?



And to Dan. Yes I I am happy with my progression. But It is quite more difficult to improve 4-5 sec from 1.58 than from 2.06.
Remember that I only trained 3 sessions pr week when I ran 2.06. I have kinda stopped on 1.58. I havent ran any 800m this year but,
I dont think I have the speed required to run a 1.54-1.56 800m.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2002 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It is quite more difficult to improve 4-5 sec from 1.58 than from 2.06.

That would normally be true, but until the improvement stops coming in huge chunks, why limit yourself by what other people tell you should be the case? I had a friend in high school who's 1500m progression went like this:

freshman: 4:28
sophomore: 4:08
junior: 4:00
senior: 3:54

Any guesses what he ran his freshman year in college? 3:48, good for 4th in the Pac-10 championships. A rash of injuries and illnesses kept him from improving much after that, otherwise that steady progress probably would have continued.

Quote:
I have kinda stopped on 1.58. I havent ran any 800m this year but...

There will always be plateaus within a season. It's what you do from the start to the end of the season and from one season to the next that counts. Maybe you're right and you really don't have the speed to make that next jump, but I'm willing to bet that's not the case. If it were, your limited training background would not have propelled you so close to your "maximum" level so quickly. Honestly, I would be surprised if you were unable to run 1:52 within the next 2-3 years, which, I might add, is comparable to a minute faster than your 3k goal you stated in the first post. Wink

Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2002 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always like to use periodization. I'm a big advocate of the 4 week mesocylce, in other words three weeks of steadily increasing stress (either volume or intensity depending on where you are in relation to your target race) followed by an easier accumulation week where you back off on volume, intensity or both.

When you do an extra VO2 max session you should do it instead of your normal Monday or Thirsday workout.

And by 1:1 to 1: 1 1/2 ratio I mean if you are running 1200's in 3:30 then your rest time should be between 3:30 and 5:15. (preferably closer to 3:30)

And the total length of the VO2max workouts should total 6000-8000 meters.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2002 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diastance Guru, can you also give me an example of an easy week?
I am very happy with your programme you created, and I dont want to mess think up with creating a easy week on my own. (I might train too hard in the easy week)

If I run fast with this programme next year, you will hear from me on this board.

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2002 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do I get the feeling I'm talking to myself... I take it my advice is falling upon deaf ears here? I suppose my hot air would be better spent elsewhere...

Sad

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2002 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For an easy week, you can do one of two things. First off you could reduce the intensity by simply subing in an easy run for one of the more intense sessions. Or you could reduce the length of one or more of your aerobic runs. Or you could simply take a run off. If you are going to skip a run then I advise that you make one of your quaility sessions a little harder than normal and then take a day off following that.

Dan I think you have a good point that Googlebot is doing well with his 800, but as everyone loves to say around here to be really good at any distance you need speed and it seems that he has it. At least he has pretty good speed for a 3k runner anyway. And if he wants to try to run the 3k with his speed who am I to stop him.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2002 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's just say if it were me, and I didn't end up running 8:25 or faster for 3k, I'd be kicking myself for having switched events on the advice of the "move up" crowd.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2002 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
Let's just say if it were me, and I didn't end up running 8:25 or faster for 3k, I'd be kicking myself for having switched events on the advice of the "move up" crowd.

Dan


Just for the record. I'd like it to be known that I never advised Googlebot to move up. He wanted training advise for 3k and I gave him some. I would have to see the kid run a few times before I would be able to tell if he should stick with 800 or move up.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2002 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry, I wasn't implying it was you that suggested that. What I was saying is that it doesn't sound like much thought has been given to whether he should move up, just how to do it. Based on what's been presented to us, it sounds like a risky experiment at best.

Dan

p.s. Googlebot is an interesting choice of screen name. Search engine fanatic, by any chance?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2002 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

Dan, I dont think it will be very "risky" to follow the programme that Distance Guru has suggested.
If you look at it, it is not so different from the programme I was doing this winter. Just some increase in milage.
And I dont`t think this programme will hurt my 800m performance so much. Next year I am also sure that I can handle the milage in this new programme
Distance Guru has suggested. One of the reason why I want to train "3k" training, is because I am going to the army next year, which
means no chance to do any speed or fast tempo work. They just dont have a track I can train on, only hard slippery roads. I am going to be 12 months in a place where
It is -10 to -15 in the winter. And only roads outside and a treadmill inside and a strength room to use, not ideally for an 800m training.
And I believe this trainingprogramme also can improve my 1500m time. And It will give me a good base which I can use to handle faster tempo work If I want to
go back to 800m training. I really want to talk more about training, but English is not my main language, so I doesn`t write very well or fast.

Yes Dan, I am an search engine fanatic!!
When I got Internet I was making a homepage and I wanted to promote it. Then I read about search engine promoting and optimalization
and I was creating a lot of homepages for a high ranking in the search engines. Google is of course one of my favourites!
So my 2 main hobbies are running and website promoting!
Great homepage Dan! And I see you also have used the "meta name= keywords and description tag" I believe you are a good promoter of your
website.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2002 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I dont think it will be very "risky" to follow the programme that Distance Guru has suggested.

I wasn't saying following DG's schedule would be risky, rather switching events when you seem to have a lot of promise in the one you're leaving behind.

Given your explanation, the planned change does make more sense. However, Vebjorn Rodahl, the '96 Olympic Champion in the 800m from Norway, trained winters in a tunnel that was something like 200m long. Wink

Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2002 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been having fun following this topic. Given DG's preference for high mileage work for middle distance as well as the 5K and 10K, I would expect that Googlebot will find that his top speed may suffer only slightly, but that his staying power will be greatly enhanced, therefore his 800m time will drop considerably.

Paul
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