Run-Down Forums

[Dan]

I'm curious, what is it about distance running that you guys suppose strengthens hamstrings? I ran cross country for about 8 years and never noticed any hamstring strengthening effects, nor have I noticed distance runners with remarkably developed hammys...

What I would think is more likely is that the distance running is less of an aggravation to the hamstrings. After all, the key to building strength is to break down the muscle and build it back up, and sprinting is all about stressing the hamstrings! So, what might be seen as hamstring strengthening through LSD might just be a break from true strengthening.

I should also mention that I have a nasty habit of disbelieving the medical community on most things unless they can explain something in a logical fashion, because, well, usually they can't...

I was diagnosed by a doctor many years ago as having patella condromalacia (sp?), which was similar to what Micah described with the knee cap not tracking. I later learned that it was a medical garbage term for knee pain and there really wasn't much wrong with me...

Dan

[Conway]

My thought is that distance running is done from a different position than sprinting .. MOre on the heel and in the bucket so to speak .. Changes the stress points .. Now the hamstring gets more isometric use and less explosive use .. The hamstring is now able to function and develop strength .. At least that is my non medical explanation ..

Of course when all is said and done you still have to get in the weight room and do leg curls and such to strengthen them enough to off set for the strength of the quads ..But I have found didstance runnign to be much more productive in rehabbing hams than trying to go back out and sprint slowly ...

[Dan]

[Conway]

Personally I have found that stregnth is key in anything explosive .. Explosion comes from strength .. I think that is why the short sprints have evolved the way they have in the past decade and a half .. Sprinters now must be strong first .. Not the little light quick guys .. But the strong explosive ones ..

Having said that .. It would only follow that in order to keep the hamstrings intact one must strengthen them fist since they tend to absorb an inordinate amount of the explosion of the stride .. They must be able to absorb what the quads initiate .. So when rehabbing if they are not strengthened they simply reinjure (sp?) ... Yes, no , maybe ???

[Dan]

Makes sense. Although I don't have data to support it, it seems that hamstring injuries are more common following periods of non-speed work. If true, that would imply that the LSD rehabs the hamstrings but doesn't do anything to make them more resistant to injury.

Dan

[Conway]

Then it would seem the key for top sprinters is how to maintain hamstring strength through out a competitive season .. If you look at the elite ranks there are severatop sprinters each year that have some degree of hamstring problems .. I think Mo has had at least one hamstring injury (or more) during each of the last 3 or 4 seasons .. The ultimate in strength being a weakness ..

[Dan]

One of the thing I've started doing with my sprinters is reverse leg press. It's a rather difficult exercise to do with any sort of machine, so we use partner resistance and have one person push straight back with one leg at a time while the other person does their darndest to resist the push...

The idea behind it is that most hamstring exercises (curls) do more harm than good, placing large amounts of stress on the over-extended muscle and tendons down the back of the knee, while not really simulating the way the hamstring functions while running. Hamstring curls treat the hammy as a knee flexor, whereas sprinting requires it to be largely a hip extensor. If you look at where the majority of hamstring injuries take place, it is right at the point of toe off when the muscle is fully extended and pushing back from the hip.

One of the guys suggested to me that we could use a scooter (with resistance or tightened down bearings in the wheels) and do straight leg pushing around the track. May not be a bad idea.

The difficulty in isolating the muscle group to work on properly seems to be a very good indication of why it is so often injured...

Dan

[Conway]

The exercise that you describe is one that chiropractors that practice applied kineseology use to help strengthen / rehab pulled hams .. Doctor Perry who was very prominent in the 70s/80's in the sport was one of its pioneers .. IT is very good and works .. And the scooter idea is novel in its approach and I wonder if it would work ??

[Dan]

Has the exercise lost popularity since the 80's? The only other reference I've seen to it is from Charlie Francis, who was very big on it in the late 80's (fits the time frame you mentioned).

I think the scooter exercise has definite potential, so long as people are conscientious of what they're doing. Proper form would be imperative, otherwise it would be largely working the foot, calf, hip, and maybe quad.

Dan

[Conway]

Not sure if the exercise lost popularity as much as there aren't a lot of people familiar with it .. Perry was in SoCal during the 70s/80s and worked mostly with the elite .. And chiropractic care wasn't very popular yet .. And Applied Kinesiology (as practiced by PErry and a few others) was limited to a few practitioners .. So not sure if a lot of folks were ever really familiar

[Dan]

I suppose that makes sense, and goes a ways toward explaining why Francis' camp believed that most hamstring injuries could be rehabbed in a matter of days or weeks, an idea that most would scoff at. The pieces of the puzzle are starting to fit together... Probably a major reason why they were not overly concerned about Ben's health heading into Seoul. Ironic, considering that most people pointed to his "miraculous" rehab as further evidence of drug use (I believe some also said he was faking it to lay low). Seems to me that drug use would be more likely to hinder muscle regeneration than to speed it up, as it generally leads toward stiffness and dehydration...

Another very good hamstring exercise is one I've been doing fairly regularly of late. If you're familiar with the sliding benches on some bowflex machines (mine is a bowflex with no bows hybrid joint venture thingee), here's a description: Put the seat in the slider position and sit facing away from the machine. Put the belt around your waste so that it is hooked up to the hand grips behind you, and hook your heels over the foot of the bench (best to wear shoes, as it puts a lot of pressure on the achilles otherwise; I've been trying to devise a way to put together something to actually hook the toes under for better leverage, but haven't had any luck thus far). The actual exercise then consists of pulling yourself toward your feet, which is much different than the typical hamstring exercises of pulling your foot to your butt. Does a great job of isolating the muscles without undue strain. Adam explained to me once the scientific terminology for how the exercises differ, but I don't remember the exact definition.

Only other way to really get a similar exercise would be to hang from your feet and pull yourself up...

Dan

[Conway]

From what I understand Johnson, Astaphan and crew were very much into non traditional methods of training and "medicine" .. Actually in some ways Ben remined me of Rocky .. Training hard to become number one and using "different" methods to get ahead of his competitors .. They seemed to be very good at taking the best of what others had done and then improved upon it .. I don't think there was ever any doubt in his camp that he would be over his hamstring "injury" in time for the games .. And never have I seen anyone go through rounds holding back as much as he did in Seoul .. All the way up to the final Lewis appeared to be the man in control .. And doubt was cast upon Ben .. When Johnson exploded out of the blocks in the final most of the world was in shock ... Notice I said "most" ..

[Dan]

Somehow I suspected you weren't one of those people doubting Ben's chances.

Dan

[Conway]

I had every confidence in Ben .. People tended to forget that Ben was a proven commodity .. And it wasn't over night .. Ben WAS the bronze medallist in Los Angeles in 84 .. He came back in 85 and ran under 10.10 .. And steadily improved each season .. In a lot of ways he was like Mo Greene .. Failure in 84 (if you can call bronze a failure) just as MO didn't make the games in 96 .. Then came back and just got better each season .. Motivation from having lost .. Carl was NOT the dominanat force after 84 .. And Ben proved himself whenever the opporutnity arose ..

The fact that Lewisw was the favorite in 87 & 88 was more becasue of American promotion thorugh the media than becasue of any dominance on the track .. If anohter American had run that race in Rome in 87 (9.83 WR) They most certainly would have been given favorites status for Seoul .. But it being a Canadian, well it was just a matter of Carl getting on the track and making it right .. Whe it was clear in Rome that Carl was at his limit .. And for the record he NEVER ran as fast as Ben ..

[Dan]