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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't buy it... The very first line of the article sharply contrasts the highly successful Kenyan training formula:

"The bulk of any serious runner's training volume is comprised of slow to medium paced continuous runs."

The piece you quoted sounds related to theories of running many years at very high altitudes, not just regular hill running.

Just skimming that article, it encompasses everything I dissaprove of in an approach to running...

Dan
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mjsbossman
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2001 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your serious Dan? I was getting excited, because that article sounded good to me, not only that article, there are about 10 articles on that webpage, take a look at each of them. They have articles on speedwork, long runs, tempo runs, etc. It sounded true to me, but I am not an expert and I don't believe everything I read. Take a look at the rest of the articles, like the long run and tell me if they are all bad. Because some of that stuff was interesting. They said easy-medium runs have benefits.

But I think Kenyans run faster because all of them have a higher LT, naturally. Us Americans can't run at the same percentage of our VO2 Max, therefore we can't run at as fast a pace.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2001 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I said, I just skimmed it. What I saw, I didn't like. I'd read more, but I don't like to read. Smile

Why do you say westerners cannot run at as high a percentage of their VO2 Max as do Kenyans? I think you're confusing can't with don't. Few people make an attempt to train like that, so there's little basis for saying it cannot be done.

Dan
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mjsbossman
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2001 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I don't know if most people can train that fast all the time. After I run fast on a 60 minute run, maybe for the last 20-25 minutes, I feel pretty tired. What I don't understand is how it is okay to run fast every day. Is it not true that you must have easy runs? Easy runs have their benefits, too. So do medium runs, and fast runs. Its good to train at all of these paces.(I think)

On Monday we finally did a good interval workout, 10x800m in 2:40, with 2 minutes rest. It started to get hard, but I wasn't really out of breath. Bascially the only thing slowing me down is lactic acid build up. My Max VO2 is so high!
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2001 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're correct that you cannot (or at least should not) run hard every other day. However, we're talking about two very different things. Fast and hard are not the same thing. The main difference being how much. I believe that moderately fast strides should be incorporated into every workout. They are fast, but not enough to significantly increase the difficulty of the workout. Also, running fast for 60 minutes doesn't quite fit the framework of high intensity training. That's too far into the aerobic spectrum to work the same energy systems, no matter how tired you make yourself.

10x800 is a great workout, especially if you're preparing for the 5k. Wink

Dan
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mjsbossman
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2001 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Dan, you know that web page I showed you? It says interval training, such as 10x400 is the least effective type of training to make you faster. Doing long runs, tempo runs, and Max VO2 is the most effective, and allows you to move to higher fitness levels. It says that anaerobic intervals only allow you to move up higher IN your current fitness level.

Do you think this is true? If it is, then darn. I ask my coach if we can change our training a bit. Because we really don't do many tempo runs or Max VO2(although the 10x800 was max VO2).

I do long runs each week, I am going to add 5 minutes to it every 2 weeks. Last week I did 95 minutes, the week before 90. Those long runs really help soo much. But sometimes when I run with my team, I just ditch them, so I can get a tempo paced run in. It feels good to be the fastest. Those 60 mile weeks didn't hurt.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2001 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I said, I didn't see anything in that article that I agree with. Definitely nothing worth giving a closer read...

Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2001 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a bit of a pseudo-science overdose here! What on earth is a max VO2 run? Last time I checked sports scientists were pretty well ignoring VO2 max as it's upper limit is genetic, you quickly reach it, and it's supposed correlation with performance is crude to say the least. People are doing tempo runs and long rep sessions to try and raise their Lactate threshold towards their max speed, and so they can cruise (!) at closer to their max speed than before. Kenyans have a higer LT than Europeans because they train that way.
I've been away for a few weeks , and reading back thro this is a lot of info. 5*400 as fast as you can go - that's a session to peak, that's for sure. I don't see why 10*400 is a bad session , (thought I don't see why it's terribly great,unless it's split in some way ie 2 sets 5*400), though when I see people running 16 or 20 I wonder why they don't just run k's or miles, but it suits some people. 'Aerobic enzymes in the quadriceps'-what's that about? I don't think I've ever worried about that, I train hard to go longer, faster. Incidentally, for anyone who doesn't believe slow hills can hurt I've got 7km of pretty steady climb near my house, and find it a most useful workout.

[Anonymously Posted by: 'Wayne']
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mjsbossman
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2001 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Dan today we did 12x200m up hill! I didn't even ask my coach to let us do hills. We actually did 3 sets, of 4x200, with a few minutes of rest between those 3 sets. We ran the first 4 in 35, the next 4 in 33, the last 3 in 32. Tell me, is this good?

The thing I'm upset is I won't be able to do my long run tommorow. Usually, we run a long run on Sunday, and take Saturday off. However, we have a meet on Monday, and I'm doing the 3200, so it looks like I might have to skip the long run. I don't know what you think of long runs, but they really help me, I do best with high mileage.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good. Smile Although, it sounds like a bit much with a race two days later... For your events, a long run a week is still a good idea, but the duration of the long run should be decreased as the season progresses (it's still very early in your competitive season). Of course, some athletes seem to respond negatively to tapering...

Dan
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mjsbossman
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I might do a run tommorow, if I feel good. I really don't care how I do on Monday, because I know that I won't get the top 3. The meet on Monday is a continuation of the meet last Thursday, which never finished because it began to rain. The team has at least 3 guys that will easily beat me, so if I run bad, oh well. We are going to win the meet anyways, thats why I don't care.

But, last week I did a 95 minute run on Sunday, and the next day we did a 10x800 workout and I did just fine. I actually seem to run my best races after a hard day.
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Dan
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Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2001 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your area cancels meet because of rain? Wow, that would never, er, float in Oregon. We did have a meet delayed about 15 minutes once due to an instant flood, but they're more likely to cancel a meet around here due to a lack of rain.

Dan
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mjsbossman
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2001 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might have been the rain, but the meet was away, and the school we were running against was taking forever to keep the meet going. We were about to start the 3200(they were gonna have guys and girls run together because it was late) and it was already 7 PM! So it was getting late, and raining. Usually we finish meets by 6.

I agree, rain shouldn't stop a meet. But the track was dirt, so running in mud is bad, but I can deal with it, as long as the other team deals with it!
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