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ssteve235
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:08 pm    Post subject: Somethings wrong Reply with quote

I think that something has been going wrong pretty badly for the past month. I havent run a good race in 24 days. The past 4 or 5 races ive got proggressivly worse. Some of the blame i think can be put on the cold that i havent gotten over. But there must be another reason for why ive run so bad for such a long period of time.

Id like some help trying to diagnose it so ill throw a few ideas out there and describe the training that ive been doing recently.

The first thing that i thought of was confidence. Ive raced bad so that doesnt help me have confidance in myself that i can go with a kid during a race. Also it doesnt help that the workouts my coach prescribes arent good confidance boosters. By that i mean, when we do a hard workout, its never on a set course but we go all over the place and rarly run the same hill or section of town twice even during the workout. It gets annoying because i never know how far my uptempo just was so when i time it i cant tell whether its a fast time or whether i didnt push enough. I usually jsut assume i didnt push it hard enough and that doesnt really help with my psych.

Another reason could be, the training has changed immensly over the past few months. I realize that during this time of the season, miles need to be cut down and replaced with more quality running but my miles have been cut down ALOT. At the end of the summer and the first two weeks of preseason i was putting in 70 mile weeks and now im barely hitting 50. I was also running better with all the miles compared to now w/o them.

Heres what a typical week has looked since the last time i ran a good race:

Monday: short run 15-20 min, 45 minutes of light hills, short to medium uptempos interspersed with core and upperbody work
Tuesday: Usually a duel meet and then either a long cool down or a 4 mile run on my own when i get home.
Wednesday: Short run 10-15 min. 45-60 min of hard hills, 4 mile easy night run (on my own)
Thursday: long run 65-70 min
Friday: Short-medium run 15-25 min, striders anywhere from 10-15 min worth
Sat: Invitational
Sunday: Every other sunday i take off. The others, some sort of hard workout-this weekend 6 miles with a 30 second surge every 2 min at a hard pace and last weekend was repeat miles.

Im throughly confused by why im running so badly. Am i burning out? Did i just lose it mentally? Something else entirely?
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ssteve235
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also forgot to mention that fo the past two weeks i have also eaten really unhealthy compared to the 3 weeks before i ate extremely healthy. That may also be a factor.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely get the nutrition in check. That's by far the easiest thing to correct and quite likely the most significant.

After that ... perhaps talk to the coach about mileage and see if it's worth adding some extra to recover that summer balance.

There's always the possibility lurking that you did overtrain this summer, given how fast you built up the mileage. You seemed to handle it well at the time, but that's no guarantee... Not much to be gained by worrying about that, though. Getting on a liquid iron regimen could be beneficial.

http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/hs/coachscorner/20051215.html

Dan
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your maximum mileage is your base mileage. Your workout mileage (the one you use during xc and track season) should be significantly lower. I cut back a lot too.

The amount of damage that you take from a workout is not based on the total quantity, but on those few extra minutes/intervals. An example is 6 x mile. Let's say that you're on your 4th mile and your body feels really exhausted. Running those last 2 intervals is where your body will take the most damage from the workout even though it's 2 miles compared to 4 miles because that's where your body will fight the most to keep up the pace. The same issue applies to you with those 4 extra miles you run on Tuesday and Wednesday. You run a hard workout and those 2 extra miles (the other 2 miles are fine because your cool-down should be about 15 minutes) You also don't need 15 minutes worth of strides.

You should take out that 4 mile run at night on your own as well as the 4 mile run on Tuesday. There is this little concept I learned in my AP Economics Micro class called marginal cost vs. marginal benefit. For example, there is a certain amount of miles vs. the benefit that you get from training. There is a point where the amount of miles you run is equal to the benefit you're obtaining from your training. This point is your optimal level of training. Adding just a few more miles will greatly decrease your benefit. Here is another example: you're running 120 miles a week which is the maximum strain that your body can take. Adding 10 more miles (which doesn't seem much compared to the total mileage) will automatically cause your body to break down. You're running a whole extra 4 miles for no reason. You don't need those, stick with a 15 minute cool-down and you'll have a much better time hitting 46 miles. Cool-downs and warm-ups are supposed to be 15 minutes. If you still want some mileage, then I suggest that you increase your long run to 12 miles. A 70 minute long run is like 9 miles for you which is a tiny bit too little.

So just reduce your 4 mile runs on Tuesday and Wednesday to 15 minute runs. Don't even bother with the distance, just run easy for 15 minutes as a cool-down. Now is the time to make adjustments, do it now and you'll see the difference.
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ssteve235
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think im going to take out those extra 4 mile runs, now that i think about it, there really isnt a benefit to them. The long run i cant change the distance of, my coach dictates exactly how long we run for so that will stay the same. Im also going to start taking a multi vitamin with 100% of dv iron. I looked at that link from dan and i fit all of those symptoms...abnormally tired, not recomvering from workouts, sorer then normal, musle tightness. I also found out today that almost my entire team takes some sort of multivitamin and im the only kid on varsity who doesnt take on. My diet im gonna change back to eating healthy and high in iron rich foods.

I dont know what it feels like to overtrain as im still realitvly new to distance running but i dont feel as if i did. I built up my mileage correctly albeit fast and i did everything right training wise so i shouldnt be breaking down or even burning out. I could be though but there is no point now in worrying about that. Hopefully these couple of changes will get me back into in time for sections, only 4 weeks and 2 days!
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh ok then. I've been taking "Flintstones" vitamins ever since I was a kid every single day. Now I take two a day. They come in different flavors and they taste very good. 100% iron, 80% zinc, 100% Iodine, 100% of like every vitamin, 100% folic acid, 75% Niacin, 100% Pantothenic Acid, etc. They're reinforced with choline as well. But yeah, iron is what enables the oxygen to attach to the red blood cells as your blood flows through the capillaries of your lungs. It's also known as hemoglobin. A shortage of iron is the condition of anemia. You can get your iron checked easily, you just go to a physician and they prick one of your fingers for a drop of blood.

Over training is when your training is outside of your optimum zone, therefore causing your body to break down instead. Training is supposed to be hard work, not extra hard work but we can speculate this and make it extra hard once in a little while to snatch some of those extra gains. Your training doesn't appear too severe. However, I don't agree with having a hard workout the day after your invitational. When I do a hard workout, I feel downright weak the next day, it's inevitable.
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ssteve235
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive been taking a multivitamins for a few days now and i changed my diet to a pretty healthy, iron rich diet and i feel GREAT. This weekend my body has recovered much better between workouts then in recent weeks. I just feel all around much better and ive been way more motivated lately then i have been for the last few weeks.

One very important thing that i have noticed when i went back and looked at my training log...my warm ups before races have been totally erratic. My first 3 races (which i ran my 3 best times at) my warmup was basically the exact same thing, so that may have something to do with my race performance. I guess ill just see on tuesday.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Establish a [good] routine and stick with it!

Dan
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ssteve235
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just noticed this very interesting tidbit about my training... every year during track/xc we do this one hard work usually withing 4 weeks of the end of the season and i compared the miles run during each of those weeks...track-73.5 including two days of meets...xc-48.5 with one meet. I just thought that seemed like such an odd discrepancy between mileage and i ran much better during track when i had a high mileage and even during xc when my miles were higher
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You put in a 74 mile week in track when you were just transitioning to the distances? Shocked
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ssteve235
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol well it was two months in, it may have been a bit less, i wasnt as good then with my record keeping but it is within 5 miles. Looking back maybe not the best idea but the training i did during track worked compared to the training now.
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The training worked because you're body had a lot of room for improvement. That's completely normal. It's getting down from 5:00 and on that stops many people simply because they don't understand a few key concepts. Every beginner will make huge gains no matter what, from then on, it won't be like that anymore. A 5:00 minute mile is just the beginning, it's really not that fast when you look at the body's capabilities. The 2 biggest mistakes in training are:

1.) Running way out side of your optimal level (killing yourself in workouts).

2.) Improper recovery (easy runs are too fast/back-to-back hard days).

The main focus is run easy when you're supposed to run easy and run hard when you're supposed to run hard. the only time you should really go all the way is when you race. Your long run should be at about 7:00-7:20 mile pace and your easy runs (in between your hard days) should be at about 8:20-8:40 mile pace. When it feels hard during your easy run, you are running too fast. That's it, nothing more or less.

Monday: short run 15-20 min, 45 minutes of light hills, short to medium uptempos interspersed with core and upperbody work

Tuesday: Usually a duel meet and then either a long cool down or a 4 mile run on my own when i get home.

Long cool down? It should only be 15 minutes at the most.

Wednesday: Short run 10-15 min. 45-60 min of hard hills, 4 mile easy night run (on my own)

You don't need the short run or the 4 mile run. All you need is a 15 minute warm-up and cool-down before and after the hills.

Thursday: long run 65-70 min

A long run after a hard workout? Not good. This day should be more like a 6-7 mile very easy run.

Friday: Short-medium run 15-25 min, striders anywhere from 10-15 min worth

This should be a hard workout, strides shouldn't count as a workout.

Sat: Invitational

One race is enough. This day should be a very easy run.

Sunday: Every other sunday i take off. The others, some sort of hard workout-this weekend 6 miles with a 30 second surge every 2 min at a hard pace and last weekend was repeat miles.

You're better off taking every Sunday off because you already run 6 days a week and a hard workout after that Saturday does more harm than good for your body.

Your main problem is the way your training is put together. It doesn't follow your body's recovery. This causes it to break down and you gradually end up doing poorly on your hard days as well as your race days. The reason you feel good is mostly mental. It's not because you're iron was low, but you just experienced the placebo effect because you thought that that iron will make you feel better. The body also has the capability to all of a sudden surprise you. You need some intervals, something different to help your speed. Something along the lines of 800s or 2000s.

Your body needs to recover from every hard day/race. What do you think is going to happen when you do a hard workout while feeling weak? Again, marginal benefit vs. marginal cost. It's costing you more and more the less time you give your body to recover and the benefits of your training are going down. Watch out for a relapse.
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ssteve235
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But i cant help my training, my coach puts that together. Just like i cant help my race schedule, its just what is. I have realized that my teams training schedule is bad, for some reason my coach has drastically changed it from last year and no one knows why. The team last year won sections and this year were expected to get beat badly. I would love to get some hard interval sessions in, but i cant, not unless i skip practice which isnt a choice. So im just stuck with doing what my coach says. FYI i guess i didnt feel all that great because i ran the same time on tuesday as i did last week, still on this damn downward spiral.
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ssteve235
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bad, my math was off it was 64 miles that week not 74.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still high, but much more in the 'reasonable' direction.

Dan
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