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400/800 double
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2000 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it even advisable to run these two races in the same season. I find that if I get in great shape for the 400 I haven't done enough distance and burn out in the 800. When I do too much distance my 400 time suffers. I have tried many different workouts, but they have been too grueling. A couple I do are: 5x200-each one a second faster than the first-2min rest;4x800 on 5 min rest-I try to keep it under 2:30. Have any new great workouts?

[Anonymously Posted by: 'Dave Murphy']
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2000 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dave,

The 400/800 combo might be the rarest of "consecutive" events in track & field. I've alternated between the two during the same season several times and haven't really noticed any problems.

One thing I would suggest about your 5x200 workout is that if you can cut a second off each one, then they probably are not high enough quality to benefit your 400. I prefer something like 4x200 at a little slower than 400 race pace, trying to keep them consistent.

Also, I don't like to do intervals that are the same distance as the race I'm preparing for; sort of a mental thing. Running repeat 800's tends to reinforce a pace for that distance, not a good thing when it comes to the race, in my opinion. I would rather do 4x400-600 at something close to race pace. A rule of thumb that I tend to stick to is your total intervals for the workout should be double the distance of the race being prepared for, i.e. one mile total (4x400) for the 800.

Hope this helps,
Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2000 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dan,
I have just finished lots of base training for the 400-300s and 150s. I feel my speed is up and I have endurance, but not fo ran 800. I ran a mile in 5:19 last week, but I don't want to do an 800 test race. What can I do to predict what I will run?
thanks,
Dave

[Anonymously Posted by: 'Dave Murphy']
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2000 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh.... Sounds like it's time for a 600m time trial! Smile Run it hard and add 33-34 seconds and it should approximate your 800m time quite closely. It won't break you down that much either, as it's usually the last 200m of the race that does that.

Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2000 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it a good idea to run stairs and hills during the competitive season? I have a 250m hill that is challenging to run and has to be making me stronger. The most I can run up the hill at a decent pace is about five. I then do about ten 100m strides to get the lactic acid out of my legs. Is this workout worth it?
Dave

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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2000 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dave,

Hills -- definitely yes. Stairs -- probably couldn't hurt, but I don't find them overly helpful. Your hill workout is probably good for the 800, but too long for the 400. For more power, 100m hills are about as long as you can maintain much quality.

The reason I'm not all that big on stairs is that they work on timing and foot placement more than explosiveness or speed. There's nothing wrong with that, but drills accomplish the same thing and don't sacrifice the quality of the hills.

Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2000 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found a really good workout that I did indoors yesterday. I actually had training partners to do it with which was a big plus. The three of us did eight 200's with only two and a half minutes of rest in between. It really worked my endurance because I went as fast as 26.5 but never slower than 30.5. For some reason I wasn't exhausted until afterwards. Do you know of other similar workouts?
Dave

[Anonymously Posted by: 'David Murphy']
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2000 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can get just about as creative as you want. 300-200-100, 3x3x300, 4x400, 100-200-300-400-300-200-100, etc. The key is to have a plan for what you want to get out of the workout and set a goal pace. Then go for it!

Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2000 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im thinking about adding some 500s to my workout. I have no idea how fast I want to run them, but not ridiculous. I read that Lee Evans used to run an all-out 500m each week to make a 400 seem shorter. Is this logic correct?

[Anonymously Posted by: 'Dave Murphy']
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2000 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can do it and not kill yourself in the process, I suppose it would work. However, you will obviously be running slower than 400m race pace, so it's debatable how much benefit you get directly applied to the race. My feeling is that any hard workout -- unless you are in a base building phase -- needs to be at least as fast as you plan on racing, to develop favorable muscle memory.

Other variations that accomplish similar things would be repeat 600's or 800's (geared more toward the mid-pace endurance) or 500's with the first 300-400m being medium effort then kicking it in.

Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2000 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need some advice on racing strtegy. i will run an indoor 400 next weekend. I will have to go out really fast to make sure I don't get boxed in on the 2nd lap. the problem is that this takes so much out of me that i really slow down. Should I try to hold back slightly on the first lap so I can try to pass later on? I know that the lactic acid will be hitting me at the end.

[Anonymously Posted by: 'Dave Murphy']
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2000 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tough one. I've never run indoor, so I can only make comments based on what I've seen. If you don't feel you will be able to hold on after a fast pace, you're probably best off trying to go as evenly throughout as possible. In the longer indoor races, you will often see people hang in the back then kick to avoid getting boxed in, but I'm not sure that's possible in a race as short and fast as the quarter...

Good luck.
Dan
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2000 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran my race indoors-53.70s (FAT). I was surprised at how easy the first lap was-25.4 hand timed. i got to about 350m and just completely felt like lead. I probably lost a whole .75 seconds at the end. I am going to start to do some of those sprint 250 walk 50 sprint 100 workouts.

[Anonymously Posted by: 'Dave Murphy']
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2000 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice Job! That's an ambitious, but not unreasonable, opening pace. Michael Johnson's recent world record 400m lost something like half a second in the last 50m alone. At the same time, he was clearly pulling away from the field. The question's not whether you will slow down, but by how much. Wink

Be warned, those 250-50-100 workouts are deceptively tough!

Dan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2000 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,
If you want to guage your 800m without running a time trial, here's what my college coach gave us: 3 X 400m, hard, with 2 min. rest. Then he added the first and last 400m to get an effective 800m time. It worked pretty well for the guys on my team.

[Anonymously Posted by: 'Jim Gilland']
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