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andrewilliamson Lurker
Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Posts: 3
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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re:cadence effect on overall pace?
Can't say with certainty, since I'm only 5 years into distance running. Is my pace faster? Absolutely (times have dropped from 48min 10K to around 40min 10K). Is this attributable to a change in cadence? Perhaps a small portion of it; but other factors have been more important.
One area where I am sure the cadence helps significantly is on longer runs and racing marathons. I believe 160 strides per minute for marathon results in too much airtime for anyone...the same runner would be better off with a faster cadence and "shuffle" than with all that takeoff and landing.
I'm not sure I entirely understand the question, though Pace is cadence x stride rate. If I'm holding my cadence near constant, then the way I adjust my pace is by adjusting my stride length. If I'm running easy, my strides are shorter @175/min. If I'm racing, they're far longer and probably just over 180/min. If I may read deeper into the question, it seems that some of you are saying "I can't increase my cadence and hold my pace constant ("everytime I try to increase the cadence my pace gets faster."). To that I would say you need to shorten your stride. Now perhaps for some this is unnatural; for seasoned veterans, perhaps the adjustment isn't possible? I dunno. (I was still a relative "newbie" at distance running when I made the adjustment).
But there are definitely overstriders out there, even some with lots of miles on their legs.
Andre |
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Dan Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999 Posts: 9334 Location: Salem, OR
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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That's definitely a significant 10k improvement, but like you said, it's difficult to tell what to make of it without a conditioning baseline comparison.
Quote: | I'm not sure I entirely understand the question, though |
Basically, does the increased cadence increase your pace at a given effort level (i.e. racing), or does it merely change the turnover X stride length numbers to yield the same constant [pace]?
Dan _________________ phpbb:include($_GET[RFI]) |
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andrewilliamson Lurker
Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Posts: 3
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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"Basically, does the increased cadence increase your pace at a given effort level (i.e. racing), or does it merely change the turnover X stride length numbers to yield the same constant [pace]? "
Oh, now I get it. Well, that's the $64K question, isn't it?
I suppose to summarize I'd say my increased cadence is mostly offset by a shorter stride, yielding a net faster pace, yes. The longer the race, the bigger the delta because with the shorter strides I fatigue less with distance.
This is my subjective impression, anyway.
I hope that comes close enough to answering your question!
Andre |
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Dan Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999 Posts: 9334 Location: Salem, OR
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | The longer the race, the bigger the delta because with the shorter strides I fatigue less with distance.
I hope that comes close enough to answering your question! |
Yep.
Dan _________________ phpbb:include($_GET[RFI]) |
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AM_Runner All-Star
Joined: 28 Jul 2004 Posts: 776 Location: NYC
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:16 am Post subject: |
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This discussion is definitely interesting - I have looked into my rate and well I am always at around 160 - or even sometimes slightly less perhaps thats a sign of overstriding I don't know - I don't feel like I am - my times do keep coming down and I feel comfortable on many of my runs - I have tried a couple of times to increase the stride rate - but just feel like I am stumbling and chopping way too much - just feels like a dangerous thing to do with regards to injury... probably wrong on this just a feeling _________________ The long run is what puts the tiger in the cat. |
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Fry the Sailor Junior Varsity
Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 169 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:46 am Post subject: |
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I really don't think cadence makes that big of a difference. In watching my high school track and field regional 800m, I noticed different cadences. Some had a sprint form, other had a more traditional high-turnover distance form. And they would perform equally well. Seems to apply at least mid-distance races if that helps. |
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Indeurr Olympic Medalist
Joined: 08 Aug 2001 Posts: 1558 Location: Elizabeth, NJ, 07202
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Fry the Sailor wrote: | I really don't think cadence makes that big of a difference. In watching my high school track and field regional 800m, I noticed different cadences. Some had a sprint form, other had a more traditional high-turnover distance form. And they would perform equally well. Seems to apply at least mid-distance races if that helps. |
I agree 100%.
The USATF has simplified the approach to the 800 m race as a controlled sprint. This is, however, an oversimplification.
To a sprinter, 800 meters is near-a-dash. To a long--distance specialist, 800 meters is the fastest long distance. To a pure 800 m specialist, it is yet something else.
A dasher in 800 m will keep a form that is similar to the sprinter’s form, but more relaxed, and allowing for uneven movement of the body. Any sprinter should try to run 800 m from time to time, but should not ever apply this overindulgence in relaxation in any dash, except a 400 m sprint (if using M.J.’s method to run 400 m: hammer initial 100 m and freewheel over the next 100 m to finish strong and nearly without rigor mortis to the dismay and astonishment of your opposition).
Nota Bene: I love to split the dashes and the sprints into two stes: one is dashes from 40 yards to 300 yards; the other is sprints from 300 meters to 600 meters. Why 300 yards? A person can sprint for about 270 to 280 meters, thus a person can sprint over entire 300 yards, but not over the entire 300 meters.
The track here in Elizabeth is uneven, but if it were even, and I was running 300 meters against others, I would hammer the initial 80 meters, try to freewheel over the next 35 meters, and finish as strong as possible between the 125th and the 300th meter.
Since the track that I run on climbs up between the 100th m of the 300 m race and the 200th m of the 300 m race this approach would be quite insane.
Nota Bene: Does anybody know what happened to my favorite Mary Poppins or Regina Jacobs? Is she coaching? She was famous for throwing back two quick shoulders, for every one that she received, and her career was ended by the suspicion of the illegal drug use or drug suspension. She was my number one. _________________ http://vincovitanj.tripod.com/Do_not_be_a_victim1/index.htmlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u43o595CARQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x22Alfgv0DY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgcD2akmeJc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB0RcWYMwXU
one hand clapping |
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