Run-Down Forums

[35910]

Well I have a whole bunch of excuses that I am not even going to go ahead and write here because I am sick of hearing them in my head.

Came through today in 2:28... which sucks.

Partly due to the fact that I had been training and time trialing on the UPenn track in lane one the whole time, without realizing that lane FIVE is the inside lane. Arg. In any case there is only one place to go from here, better!
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Jason Kotenko
Past, Present, and Future Runner

[Dan]

Did you run alone? That can be really hit or miss with time trialing... At least you've got a base level mark to compare to for subsequent efforts.

I've never seen the UPenn track in person, but seeing the Penn Relays on TV and trying to make sense of that stagger, I can imagine it would be easy to get confused over what the real lane 1 is.

Dan
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[35910]

The more I think about it, the more I realize I was not prepared in any way to run any good today. My training lately has been sporadic at best. I can hardly get a good night's sleep... due to a resurgence of my good friend insomnia, and coupled with dorm life its impossible to get a full night's rest any more than 75% of the time.

The main fact is though I just have not had a coherent training plan that I have actually been following. From here on out I am going to start focusing more.
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Jason Kotenko
Past, Present, and Future Runner

[35910]

simultaeous posting there I think or close to it

Yeah I ran alone. And yeah after watching Penn Relays is when I realized my mistake, I never had an inkling before that the scores of 200's and other intervals and the mile time trial I did was skewered until then.

Oh well. Soon school is out and I am back home where I can concentrate. Inner city dorm life is just NOT for me.
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Jason Kotenko
Past, Present, and Future Runner

[Dan]

That would be pretty darn close to simultaneous.

One of the athletes I coached had major sleeping issues and later told me he was often getting only 2 hours of sleep a night throughout the season... Tough to do much at practice when you're tired before you start.

The Willamette track had some funny markings at the 300m start prior to the recent resurfacing. There was one line almost straight across from the finish line that everyone thought was the 300m line, but the true line was a faint stagger at least 10m back. No one particularly liked learning that their 300m intervals weren't really that fast...

Dan
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[35910]

Here we go again.... Jason is off on another one of his "I need to change my attitude" posts.. but here goes. I've been trying to find a program and approach that is going to work best for me. Heres another stab.

I was reading the other day about a guy named Joe Newton. He is the coach at York High School in Illinois. Coached Marius Bakken. Anyway, I was reading up on his workouts, and I realized something. THOSE WORKOUTS ARE INSANE. Things like 4 x 1mi. @ 4:45, 4:43, 4:45, 4:18. Given, I can't even PR that fast, but I can think of what would be comparable for me and I have done nothing that hard.

Try the 25x400m workout. Or the 12x800m @2:19 with 2 min recovery. These workouts are pretty nuts. So I was thinking that maybe thats what I am missing. I have been babying myself with the old American "take a few easy days after a hard workout" or "don't burn yourself out" mentality. Reading what Newton's athletes were doing makes you wonder about the validity of babying yourself.

Add to that the 22 state titles and 19 2nd place finishes under Newton's belt. You have to take into account however that Newton is apparently the master motivator and had huge teams because he could recruit so well. But still, it makes me want to go out and give extremely hard work a shot!

Take a look at this http://www.joffroirunning.com/book.html
for some of the workouts... or check out Newton's book "Coaching Cross Country...something".
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Jason Kotenko
Past, Present, and Future Runner

[Dan]

Joe Newton is one of probably the two most legendary high school xc/t&f coaches, along with Mead's Pat Tyson. Keep in mind two things when reading that stuff:

1) He has a very structured program that builds the athletes up to peak mileage steadiliy during their 4 years. They aren't simply thrown into the fire...

2) When drooling over particular workouts, don't forget that the pace is relative to the athlete's ability. The York program has produced national class and world class athletes, so it stands to reason that they would be hammering out some insane intervals. The times are very fast, but the workouts themselves aren't a whole lot different than what a lot of college programs do.

Dan
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[35910]

Definitely have to take the whole build up over four years thing into account. I ordered his book today and can't wait for it to come. Lately I can't get enough different running books, just trying to get a whole lot of different points of view.

In a few minutes its time for me to hit the track myself. I'm thinking 3x4x400 today. If UPenn track is still closed from commencement then its Hill repeats over at the art museum.

I guess the thing that is most striking when I look at Newton's workouts is the very little recovery time that is built in... although I have to wonder if Marius was giving truly a "typical week" or the hardest week on that site I was looking at. I'll wait for Newton's book to see what he says about rest in there.
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Jason Kotenko
Past, Present, and Future Runner

[Dan]

The York program is definitely on the high mileage side, and that usually goes hand in hand with short recoveries built into the workouts.

When you're ordering those running books you can't get enough of, don't forget to buy them through the Run-Down Books links to help support the site.

Dan
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[Paul]

Newton's book is good reading material, I have it myself. It is written primarly to a coaching audience based on developing motivation to build and keep a strong running program. There is no doubt he is a legend. He is one of the few people you will find who was satified with his niche and never seemed motivated by upward mobility. He was at York for what, 40+ years?? And he built what is probably one of the greatest HS programs ever.

Another great book on running from a sixties perspective would be A Cold Clear Day by Frank Murphy. It is Buddy Edelen's athletic biography. Some of those workouts are something else, too.

Bear in mind that all workouts can be altered to fit your pacing and mileage ability at the present time. Principles remain the same, loads and intensities can be changed.

Another book that Graeme had mentioned before the first of the year is Training For Young Distance Runners. This is not a bad book, and considering that you are reentering the sport after a hiatus, the refresher material in this book would be worth looking at. Check your local library for some of the titles. Many libraries carry a variety of books published by Human Kinetics. There are many running titles in their catalogue. Right now I am reading one called Lactate Training which is as dry as it sounds. But there are some interesting thoughts in this volume that I hope to share with forum members, especially in light of the London Marathon.

Paul

[Dan]