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Justin
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watching Fred Newhouse run 20.5/24.9 for a 45.4 time must have been fun! Awesome...then extremely painful. I bet he was really puffing for the last 50m!

Not the worst though - Herb McKenley ran 4 times of around 46.0 which consisted of 21.0/25.0 halves. He was caught on the run-in at the 48 and 52 OG. Going off hard works best if you're in an outer lane - David Jenkins won the 1971 EC from lane 8 by blasting off and hanging on (painfully) to win by just 0.04 from an 800m runner - Marcelo Fiasconaro - who ran a much more even paced race based on his strength.

Reminds me of the nickname Roger Black's teamates gave him - Bambi - because of the spectacular way he lost form when he tired. Steve Cram was another who went all to pieces, head rolling an' all - see 84 OG 1500m and you'll see what I mean. When in full flow both Black and Cram looked terrific, very elegant, which made it all the more amusing when they lost form so badly.

Justin
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pierrejean
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, Newhouse ran like a fool that day. Apparently, he was leading after the last bend. His last straight was surely a disaster!

The 2nd best ever first 200m i have is 20.7 by Karl Honz during his 44.70 in 1972.
During his 43.23 3rd leg in Stuttgart'93 4x4 Relay, Harry Butch Reynolds passed the 200m mark in 20.3, with flying start.

Innocent Egbunike used to have sub 21sec first 200m, and Quincy Watts in Barcelona'92 ran 20.9 en-route to his 43.50 victory.

re-Jenkins: T&FN August 1971 edition gives split times 21.3 and 32.4, that's a 24.2 last 200m, and 13.1 for the last 100m, he would have been caught in the straight by Miles-Clark, Kratochvílová, Bryzgina, Freeman & Co!


On the women side, of course Marita Koch is the queen for fast opening 200m, she had many sub23sec, the fastest was 22.47 during her 47.60 in Canberra'85 (22.47 + 25.13).
This was surely made with wind-assitance, like Marie-José Pérec in Tokyo'91 who ran 22.61 + 26.52 = 49.13

Jarmila Kratochvílová did a powerfull a 22.7 + 26.2 = 48.86 in Zürich'82, in her preparation for European Championships.

Florence Griffith-Joyner experimented a 22.9 + 30.7 (!) in Modesto on 7 May 1988, for her first race of the year and her last defeat on the track in an individual event. She was caught on the line by Nigerian Bakare 53.48 vs 53.56.

Valerie Brisco ran an unusual pace for her the same year in Seoul final, using her 22.11 200m speed she had in Indianapolis (only 4th at the Trials!). Running in lane 1, she took all the risks, 11.71 at 100m, 22.94 at 200m, 35.47 at 300m on the same lane as Bryzgina, and eventually finished on her knees failing to retain her title with this 4th place in 50.16, after a 27.22 last 200m.

In Seoul again, Olga Nazarova opened a 22.2 flying first 200m in her 2nd leg, for a 47.82 final time (last 200m 25.7).
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Conway
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember Newhouse's disatrous 400 and from what I know the first 200 has always been reported at 20.2 !!!! That race was legendary when I was growing up, with ocaches always refering to "the Bear" jumping on ones back if you went out too hard !!!!! His 300 time would be interesting as he was leading coming off theh final turn ... His stretch run was like slow motion runnign in the mud !!!! Not a pretty site ...
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Justin
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've all been there of course...I remember leading a 400m race by around 10m into the stretch at age 15 and coming 7th. 18 years later I can still vividly recall the pain of the last 80m. I have never had so much trouble lifting my legs, not after 6x300m nor at the end of a 5 mile run nor after a squat session. I took a good 10 minutes catching my breath before I could even speak. I never ran an individual 400m race again.

By the same token, I once watched a kid run a 50.0 relay leg consisting of 24.5 and 25.5 halves. This was an awesome run - he took at least 20m from the leaders to win the race, almost all of which he gained in the last 150m. He seemed to be making no impression for the first 200m but then they slowed and he wound them in like he had them on a fishing line. To hold back and know that you will have the energy requires great mental strength and confidence - that's why I admire Borzakovskiy, for example.

Justin
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
1500m
last 750m - 1:41.1 Sebastian COE (GBR 3:38.40 Moskva'80)

Interesting that Coe has a fastest last 750m that is within 0.01 of the 800m time of the guy who took his record away. Smile

Quote:
We've all been there of course...I remember leading a 400m race...

I had a similar thing happen in my first HS 400m, but imagine that same feeling 200m into an 800m on a day windy enough it probably could have qualified for federal disaster assistance. Surprised

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Justin
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wandering off topic, but mention of that 1980 OG 1500m brings back warm memories. I have always had real admiration for Jurgen Straub, the East german who had the balls to take on Coe and Ovett when everyone else was awarding them gold and silver and just debating the order. A sustained push from 800m out was his only chance and it took real courage to try it - he got a silver medal and his celebration at the end was as well earned as any I have ever seen.

It also played into Coe's hands though. Until El Guerrouj I think Coe has had no peer in maintaining brutal speed over a sustained period. I was and am SO glad Coe won that race and I cried and cried with joy as he demolished the field - Cram included - in 1984. And you thought I was purely a sprint nut...

Justin
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X King
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PJ, you state that the Fastest 2nd 50m of a Men's 100m race is a 4.25s,achieved by both Carl Lewis(USA)in his 9.86s WR in Tokyo WCh '91,and also by a certain Donovan Bailey(CAN)in his 9.84s WR in Atlanta OG '96.But of course you said that they were the fastest times that you could reel off of the top of your head.The fastest that I know of,from my Video-Tapes and from a Webpage known as 'The 100m Zone',is a 4.24s achieved twice by one Maurice Greene(USA) in his 9.79s WR in Athens GP '99,and also in his 9.87s in Sydney OG '00.With given halve Splits of 5.55s/4.24s(Athens GP'99) and 5.63s/4.24s(Sydney OG'00)
The website know as 'The 100m Zone' can be found at:
http://www.proxyone.com/cgi-bin/nph-srch.cgi/000000A/687474702f7777772e3130307a6f6e652e386d2e636f6d
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pierrejean
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About that 4.24 for the last 50m in the 9.79 in Athens'99 given by that webpage (your link doesn't work by the way), if my memory serves me right, it's all wrong. Actually, i think they just took each 10m split times by Greene in Sevilla'99 en-route to his 9.80 win, and deleted 0.01 in the last 10m section, given 9.79.

In Sevilla, Greene's split times were 5.55 + 4.25 = 9.80, i don't know how i can forgot this in my list! He tied Lewis in Tokyo'91 and Bailey in Atlanta'96 thus.


Justin
Those Moscow distance races in 1980 both men and women are for me obes of the greatest ever. Ovett/Coe battles and Kazankina/Olizarenko feats are among my favourites, even tough i'm more into sprints like you.
BTW, have you received my e-mail?
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X King
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get it.The link that I posted works on my computer.There must be some mistake.Ok then, try this link:
http://100zone.8m.com/
I hope that this 'new' link works.And I notice that you, PJ, didn't say anything about my Sydney OG 2000 Video-Tape Analysis of the Men's 100m final.What Splits did you take for that race??? I would love to know!!!

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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other link looks like it contains session ID data, which would only work on the computer it originated from.

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seb Coe's autobiography talked about the 80 games in detail. I highly recommend the book.

Last edited by Paul on Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Paul
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was at the '72 OT's in Eugene for the full 9 days. All of Fred Newhouse's 4 races in the 400 were at the 20.5 level for the 1st 200. In the semis, he was incredibly smooth and visibly let up in the 50m he was so far ahead! 44.2 handtime if I recall correctly. He could have had the WR on that race! I had gone over to the east grandstand since they had the finish of the 400 on the other side of the track. I think he was in lane 6 or 7. I had a perfect view of the whole race. Even before the final I was remarking to my friend that Newhouse was in the wrong race. His 200m time would have smoked the 200 field that year. Newhouse salvaged a 4th place, for all his efforts, and landed a relay spot.

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X King
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan,how many posts do you have to post to achieve 'Junior Varsity' as your personal avatar????
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X King
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
I was at the '72 OT's in Eugene for the full 9 days. All of Fred Newhouse's 4 races in the 400 were at the 20.5 level for the 1st 200. In the semis, he was incredibly smooth and visibly let up in the 50m he was so far ahead! 44.2 handtime if I recall correctly. He could have had the WR on that race!


20.5 level for the 1st 200 in 4 races!!! That's consistency for the 1st 200 in a 400m.That's well fast!!! But also at the same time,that is very risk taking.To open up in around 20.5,and to come back in 23.7.That's clearly showing the 'dying' stage during that race.
I didn't see that race,of course,but judging from the pace that he ran the race at,I also agree that he could of broken Lee Evans long-standing WR,and WR at the time, of 43.86s.If mabye he had saved some energy in the first 200,and run , say , 20.6-20.7,let's say 20.65s,he would of had about 0.5-0.6.Let's say 0.55s 'saved' for the last 200.Giving him a time of 43.80s(20.65s/23.15s).Just snipping 0.06s off of the WR.But nevertheless a great run!!!
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
how many posts do you have to post to achieve 'Junior Varsity' as your personal avatar????

100. You're closing in fast... Smile

Dan
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